Your movies: Which file format would you prefer them to be in?

We're doing some investigation into the codec we should use to output movies into, and we've filtered it down to three main choices.

But we need your input - which would you prefer to have your movies outputted into and why? Your choice may just influence the final product!

Thanks in advance

Tricky.

I confess to hating quicktime with a passion, because I don't like the quicktime suite of tools and plugin on PC.

I've had lots of problems with WMV as a codec over the years as well. The Movies' highest quality WMV seems to contain audio timing which Adobe Premiere really doesn't like.

I'd have to go for AVI of some form or another. DivX is a great format.

holdmykidney wrote:

Tricky.

I confess to hating quicktime with a passion, because I don't like the quicktime suite of tools and plugin on PC.

I've had lots of problems with WMV as a codec over the years as well. The Movies' highest quality WMV seems to contain audio timing which Adobe Premiere really doesn't like.

I'd have to go for AVI of some form or another. DivX is a great format.

I have to vote AVI as well. It's a format the most all 3rd party editors (That I am aware of) will accept and edit.

Also, I think (not sure, but I will look into it if someone doesn't already know) it is the one that can be clear enough to show on the big screen.

thank goodness no one has yet suggested Flash ....

Am I being awkward if I say that having something at as high a quality as possible is a good idea (preferably lossless?), so that one can do conversions to whatever one actually needs?

Flash! (Just kidding)

My vote is DivX.

Ben_S wrote:

Am I being awkward if I say that having something at as high a quality as possible is a good idea (preferably lossless?), so that one can do conversions to whatever one actually needs?

Not awkward at all. The issue is that if we ask users to rely on something external and technical like Tsunami or other conversion tools we severely limit possible take up (not just difficulty but also cost) - basically we want to offer a simple push-and-make solution within Moviestorm that suits the largest number of people. Of course one of the buttons could be labelled "man, I have 2Tb of free space, so just render my 3hr movie at 32bit 1920*1080p and let me deal with the heat those disks give off"

However, one has to suspect that most users are going to be looking for something easier to share

DavidB wrote:

...Of course one of the buttons could be labelled "man, I have 2Tb of free space, so just render my 3hr movie at 32bit 1920*1080p and let me deal with the heat those disks give off"

I vote AVI, and I can see the need for outputting compressed files, but please allow an uncompressed AVI selection for those of us who want to compile our clips in other post production and effects software (ie, Sony Vegas, After Effects, Adobe Premiere, etc.).

I'd also suggest support for uncompressed 32 bit with alpha channel. This gives you a great deal of compositing capabilities, completely eliminating chroma-key issues if using output as an overlay or intermediate layer.

Several versions of 32bit codecs are bundled with windows.

About Flash:
FLV is a great way to quickly get video online with the broadest cross-platform compatibility.

There are free FLV/Flash format converters that do a great job converting video. While you may not be including one, links to their resources would be something I think users who are targeting the web/online video would appreciate or include a section of unsupported freeware utilities.

As long as i can edit it in Vegas i'm happy. Plus high quality and smaller sizes

- thats possible

The only truly functional answer is 'all of the above'. If you want to avoid the situation of Moviestorm being completely reliant on other software such as an NLE or compositing app, rather than being self-sufficient then Moviestorm should move quickly towards being able to work with all major file formats and codecs.

High-level users will of course want and insist on moving projects from Moviestorm to other applications for further post-production but i think it very valuable to not be exclusive or off-putting to newer and less expeienced filmmakers. Making Moviestorm self sufficient from staging, to shooting to output make sit accessible without limiting power users.

The Quicktime suite has some advantages with a huge range of codecs from production formats - uncompressed 4:4:4, lossless 4:2:2, DV and 32bit files with Alpha right down through delivery formats Mpeg4, Sorenson and H264/AVC. Its a very wide suite. However the Quicktime engine generally requires a call-up system when being accessed from an app that doesn't actually use QT natively. This can be very inefficient and result in slow renders. Also whilst all NLE systems on the market can use QT only Apple's Final Cut Pro uses the QT engine natively - all others (Avid, Vegas and Premiere, Canopus, liquid) use QT as an external call-up. What this means is that performance of Qt files is generally not as efficient as AVI wrapper files. This is not a big deal but something to suggest that the ability to make QT files might be secondary to AVI alternatives for 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and 32bit with alpha video.

WMV should not be overlooked. Its universal to all computers - Even macs with Flip-for-Mac - and is still one of the best quality for fie size codec out there when its handled correctly. Well made WMV's in HD can be put side by side with H264/AVC HD files and be 1/2 to 2/3 of the size of the AVC and look better on motion. The codecs used in Blu-Ray and HDDVD are based on VC1 which is made from WMV. So theres really is no knocking WMV quality when its made right. BUT it is not a production format and far too many people, with little knowledge of codecs, attempt to use WMV's to edit with which is a major no no.

The gaming community is very fond of DivX (and its side kick Xvid) using the AVI wrapper and rightly so, being an Mpeg4 based codec it delivers outstanding quality for very reasonable file size especially on long projects. But, like WMV, far too many people try and treat DivX as a production format (perhaps mislead by the use of the AVI wrapper which is more often used for DV files) and is most certainly not suited to this and indeed many NLE's will not read DivX. DivX also has a strong advantage for mobile devices as - outside of the great public hoax of the I-pod - many portable media devices use DivX as standard.

Flash FLV files have a bad rep but this is because they are most readily seen on YouTube where they have been uploaded as a low quality, heavily compressed file and then had the Youtube servers crunch them again automatically to FLV. This double compression destroys the file and makes YouTube a very bad example of FLV. FLV uses the On2 codec and is absolutely without question one of the best, if not the best, quality-size ratio codecs available when its handled correctly with an unparalleled ability to embed into websites. Arguably the prime delivery platforms for movies made in moviestorm - in line with current Machinima channels - is going to be on-line and mobile devices so it would be a grave mistake I would argue to not explore how to implement FLV in Moviestorm. The difficulty here is that i understand, now that Adobe own Macromedia and their technologies, the liscening for FLV is both tightly controlled and expensive. There are however open-source alternatives that should be explored.

Whatever format is eventually decided, don't let it be one that's proprietary -- that way leads to the Dark Side!

But my vote would be for AVI/DivX....

I believe AVI is a clear choice, but i think quicktime shoud be available to. Both formats are high quality and can then be converted to FLV or WMV with other tools if needed.

Theres a few quotes here that state such as "AVI is high quality". This is really incorrect. AVI or Qciktime MOV are just file format wrappers and neither has any influence over quality what so ever. Quality is dictated by the codec which is housed by the file format. A Quciktime MOV file for example could be 4:4:4 uncompressed HD or it could be 320x240 Sorenson at 10 frames per second and look bloody awful. Likewise an AVI could be YUV 4:2:2 HD or it could be heavily compressed Mpeg4 codec. AVI and MOV are just wrappers - whats important for Moviestorm is what codecs it can access not the file format wrappers...

Hmm. I'd say .avi primarily, but maybe with support for both the others as well?