Is Machinima only for gamers?

I am bringing this up because I had this discussion with my husband today about what is going on with Machinima in general and of course Moviestorm. What is the future for this type of software? I do know that game companies want people to write scenarios for their games and I do know that it is a lucrative profession. Is this the only aim for Moviestorm or do you want to appeal to a wider audience?

In my experience with games and gamers in general they tend to be people who are intelligent, mostly male and want to play fighting games. But Moviestorm at the outset had an appeal to a different type of creative person. The filmmaker who wants to make their own stories, add music and present them on the internet for a wide range of viewers. I believe this is possible. Especially with the state of the movie industry and television in general. Expensive and for the most part, pretty boring. But the viewing audience on the internet is a wide range of types of people. Musicians, artists, writers, comedians and people who like to watch that stuff. Oh I know that a junk thing like a couple of teenage girls fighting gets millions of viewers over on You Tube. And that is true too in the rest of the media world, sensationalism gets the attention, not art.

And that is dissappointing to me and I am sure a lot of other people who are creative and intelligent. But the thing about making animated movies and getting them out on the internet is that you don't need a million viewers. Heck, we aren't getting paid to do this. I don't in particular expect to or want to make a lot of money. I certainly have no interest in being a celebrity or getting involved in the terrible world that those people have to wallow around in.

All I want with this is to get my stories out there, because for me, art is like breathing. I can't live without creating. Besides I get really bored with most television and I like to entertain myself.

But that does not address the practical aspects of trying to run a company to sell a product. I've run two successful businesses in my life. The key to both was customer service and being open and friendly to people as well as doing a good job.

I think there is a good future for this product in Machinima because games are so popular with people and the industry is so lucrative. But I don't think the art or education aspect of this should continue to be ignored.

And lets face it most gamers aren't writers and artists. There are a lot of both here on the Moviestorm forums. I know because I have seen your work. The movies I like best here are the art and drama type movies. That is my particular taste. And of course I like to see any film that is well done.

I think also that there is an appeal for music videos and that is obviously what Moviestorm has in mind, otherwise they would not have created all those musical instruments and other animations that make music video so easy and fun to do.

My husband tells me I don't fit in here because I am not interested in computer games. Maybe he is right, but I won't stop using the software and I do reach way outside of Moviestorm for my audience. That is not to say that I don't get good views of my movies. I do and that surprises me.

And I won't stop trying to create movies that are artistic, interesting and fun. It doesnt all have to be about conquering heros and shooting guns.

http://www.moviestorm.co.uk/MSDB/DirectorPageServlet?id=432

Gamers? No.

Just because machinima involves using game engines doesn't need you to become a gamer, although you do need basic gaming skills if you are going to use pure game engines like WoW, The Sims 2, and Halo.

Everyone is welcome to create machinima. Most machinimators discovered machinima by experimenting with recording video from video games (like me), but machinima is truly open to all.

You know what they say, "You don't need a gun to make yourself tough".

Well that is interesting but not really what I was getting at. I am very skilled at using this software as you can see from my movies and have been from the beginning. But what I was getting at is who is the viewing audience going to be? If one associates Moviestorm with Machinima a lot will that drive people away who don't like video games? And of course this doesnt just appeal to gamers, it has a mainstream appeal for storyboarding and other independent film makers.

Actually you don't even have to know how to play games to use this software. Well to write it you need to know how to design games but not to use the software. Good graphic arts computer skills are really helpful which is why I found it so easy to use.

Moviestorm only uses an interface similar to games, but it is not a game software. So anyone can use it freely whether they play games or not.

Although if you are going to make machinima through a pure game engine, you will need to some basic skills on the game, like finish it twice or thrice.

Oh I know how to play computer games. I just got bored with it and then found out about making movies. My son plays a lot of games. He loves them. He is about your age. And unlike a lot of parents, I do not think he is wasting his time. He has made friends, he is head of two clans on GUNZ and has gotten very good at it. And believe it or not (well I find it hard to believe sometimes) he is rather a peacemaker on game forums. My husband plays a lot of games too.

I just prefer to make art, make movies, write and make music. When I see what is being done, it is like, I want to learn how to do that, even at my age.

Look at it this way:

There are more gamers that go to machinima than film makers.
Why?
Because it's more accessible to them. They watch gameplay videos, their Red vs Blues, and say: "HEY, I CAN DO THAT!"
And all that comes is a pile of crap.

And come on, gamers don't take machinima seriously, because they find no reason to.
It's a game, it's made for the lulz.

Let's face it,
Gamers won't take Machinima seriously until it is an art.
And
Machinima won't be an art until it is taken seriously.

...Mind guessing which ones gonna happen first?

Lionheart wrote:

Because it's more accessible to them. They watch gameplay videos, their Red vs Blues, and say: "HEY, I CAN DO THAT!"
And all that comes is a pile of crap.

speaking of which, everyone needs to go see Lionheart's guide to "Bad Machinima." it's freaking hilarious:

http://www.lionheartmachinima.com/videos/badmachinima.php

...Yeah, I WAS going to name it "Proper Etiquette for Machinima.com" but...

...That would be too nice.

Lionheart, I hope you were joking. Because isn't it kind of incongruous to say on one hand Gamers are only interested in Machinima because it is something they can do and then what they do turns out as crap and on the other hand say - gamers will only take it seriously when it becomes an art?

I am looking way beyond that realm as a filmmaker and for Moviestorm to become a tool to make all kinds of videos. Video production isn't just for entertainment. Training videos for business, commercials, psychological videos, self help, how to, music, children's entertainment, education. I don't really consider Moviestorm animation machinima the way I think of movies made during gameplay. Moviestorm animation is an art. It is a tool for use for people who want to make animated films and a very good tool.

...I DID mean that there are more GAMERS than FILM MAKERS that go to machinima.
If you understood wrong, forgive me.

Also, I believe I was quite straight forward when I say that gamers go to machinima, and don't see it as anything to be taken seriously.
As I said, they only do it because of:

a) Teh Lullz!
and
b) i Can B famus and rich too1!

And just so you know:
THIS is where it all comes from.

Me? I do machinima to help me practice for the future, being able to learn a few things from editing, effects and techniques before taking a Film career.
I am young. And I am willing to learn.

(Capitalized for emphasis, not strong emotion)

lucindamc123 wrote:

My husband tells me I don't fit in here because I am not interested in computer games.

"Here" is a pretty vague term the way you've used it, Lucinda. Does "here" refer to the Moviestorm community? Or to the general field of machinima?

If the former, then you absolutely fit in here. From my observation of the Moviestorm community, while we come from wildly divergent backgrounds, the commonality that brought us here is that we want to create. We may not all want to create the same things, but we're all looking for tools to help us express... something. A story, a feeling, a message... what have you. And here, we've found a pretty darn promising tool to help us do just that.

As far as machinima in general, or what is commonly thought of as machinima... having its roots in gaming, the first group to embrace it would logically be the gaming community. But overall, as an art form, it's still fairly early days, and machinima hasn't achieved the critical mass to explode into the mainstream. Will it ever gain that sort of widespread acceptance? I have no way of knowing. But I'm not here for "teh lulz" or any sort of cachet of whatever's passing for cool these days; I'm here because it brings the means to express my creativity within reach, with an easily accessible paradigm.

Now, if I'm interpreting your primary question correctly, you seem to be asking whether Short Fuze's target audience for Moviestorm is gamers and aspiring game developers. Yet, I think you answered your own question when you said, "Moviestorm at the outset had an appeal to a [...] creative person." And I think Short Fuze has been pretty clear from day one that their target is, essentially, anyone looking to express themselves creatively in a cinematic fashion; whether that expression takes the form of a dramatic presentation, a music video, a comedic skit, or whatever the heck may float one's boat.

So... to the question posed in your subject line, my (highly subjective) answer is: No. Machinima is not only for gamers.

Lionheart wrote:

...I DID mean that there are more GAMERS than FILM MAKERS that go to machinima.
If you understood wrong, forgive me.

Also, I believe I was quite straight forward when I say that gamers go to machinima, and don't see it as anything to be taken seriously.
As I said, they only do it because of:

a) Teh Lullz!
and
b) i Can B famus and rich too1!

And just so you know:
THIS is where it all comes from.

Me? I do machinima to help me practice for the future, being able to learn a few things from editing, effects and techniques before taking a Film career.
I am young. And I am willing to learn.

(Capitalized for emphasis, not strong emotion)

RvB rules!

Most people make machinima only for entertaining other people, fame and probably money. They could see the new episode of RvB and say, "Hey I can do this" then make something of their own.

I make machinima for skill. In fact my level is still a n00b and there is still a long road ahead. Considering a film career too. Also young (too young?) and also willing to learn.

In fact, my parents tell me the opposite. They say I don't belong in the machinima since I am not some professional dude who lives for art and money. I prove them wrong.

Well you all make me feel better. I kind of feel that Moviestorm is not really machinima the way gamers feel about it. We customize all our own animations, we don't just use stock footage that someone else has created. We can design our own sets and make them uniquely our own. I think it is very different than machinima. Yes I was kind of thinking I didn't fit in here or in machinima because I don't make war or tons of guns crime movies but more a combination of mystery, drama and comedy. However, I plan to do more action in the future. I got a kind of thrill for it by doing the robbery scene in GONE. And actually my favorite kinds of movies to watch is more action/crime oriented or comedies. Surprises you doesn't it?

I certainly am not in this in anyway thinking of making money at it. Though you never can tell what will happen. I rather like just being an independent filmmaker. I don't even plan to make live action independent films. I like animation because it is an artform. I have always liked animation. I love Japanese animation - like Gunslinger Girl and Witchblade. Besides live action film is just too expensive.

Spongy you are NOT wasting your time. You are a very gifted young man. Amazing, in fact that you are able to do what you do at age 13, but then as I told you before, I have known a lot of gifted kids. Do you have a performing arts highschool where you live? I have friends who sent their kids to the ones in New York and a few of them definitely ended up with careers.

I think also with TV doing so much with cable channels and independent networks, there is a different future ahead for young people in the entertainment business.

I suggest to any of you who really want to get into real moviemaking that you start reading some books about the business of movies. It is a business and it is a beaurocracy,which is probably why you find so many people prefering independent filmmaking.

Also the revenue from worldwide distribution and DVD distribution is now more than that is made from theaters. As computer technology and the internet grow and people are able to put HD High Res movies on the internet, internet distribution is going to really take off. That is what that writer's strike here in the US was all about. The writers were not getting the residuals from the shows and movies the studios and networks were putting on the internet. There is supposed to be an actors strike here in the US this summer about the same thing.

It is the same thing with the music industry. Musicians only make pennies from each CD sold. They make their money from tours and TV appearances. So a lot of musicians prefer internet and independent distribution to signing with a record label.

And everyone who wants to do this, don't let life get in your way. You will grow up, have to support yourself, get married, have kids, your car will break down, you will have a mortgage. Save your money, invest well and keep forging ahead. If you really want to do this, nothing will stop you, not all the NOs, not all the closed doors.

First of all, for the avoidance of doubt, everyone who's posted in this thread belongs here. As do the people who post in other threads. As do the people who are reading this thread, but have never posted. Hello! Yes, you. You're very welcome.

Lucinda's question is a very good one, and as I understand it it reaches beyond Moviestorm, and even beyond machinima itself. For a lot of machinima, there's a pre-existing audience based on the game engine used. Make a movie in Halo, and a lot of Halo players (and Halo machinima fans) will watch it purely out of curiosity. Same goes for World Of Warcraft or Half-Life 2 or any number of others.

We don't have that luxury, unfortunately. Moviestorm is not a game, and has no pedigree other than as a movie-creation tool. Second Life has the same problem, as do Antics 3D, iClone, and the half-dozen other similar tools.

This is further complicated by the fact that, even within machinima, people's definitions and expectations of machinima vary quite wildly. My advice is to stop thinking "I'm making machinima here", and start thinking "I'm telling a story here".

Maybe the biggest problem at the moment with machinima (and particularly Moviestorm) is that creating it requires the same sort of well spec'd (IE expensive) hardware that would be used by gamers.

Thus it is far more accessible to gamers, who already have such hardware, than to other people whose previous PC requirement was that it should support Office, email and web access.