Machinima or not?

[Tardcore]

Since Machinima is a form of emergent gameplay, wouldn't a program made specifically to make machinima defeat the purpose? Not bagging this program or anything, I <3 it to death , but it just occured to me.

Btw I figured out my own opinion as I typed this, but I want to see what others think

[Kheri]

I'm not sure machinima is defined as a "form of emergent gameplay". In the original definition it is said to be video captured in real time within a virtual 3D environment.

I personally have frowned upon a piece of machinima which looks like nothing more than captured game play.

Michelle and I have butted heads on this topic, and though I feel using a "tool" made specifically to make videos that resemble machinima is not machinima, the end result is the same. If I am given the opportunity to make a film using a program specific to this cause that saves me from having to "play" the game, I'm going to jump at this opportunity.

When Michelle and I make our films with the Sims2, we don't "play" the game. Everythinig is "set up" and "rigged" and a number of hacks and cheats applied to produce that end result.

[Tardcore]

One of my friends just uploads videos of him playing games to Youtube, with nothing but maybe a song in the back ground. He even posted a series about Rise of Nations...With no commentary or anything...

Meh, i'm going to bed .
Night.

[matt]

True, the majority of machinima engines are game engines, simply because nearly all real-time 3D engines are game engines, and games come with a lot of what you need to make a movie. And yes, most of the early machinima films were movies about games, or simply people capturing their game experiences on film. That's why there's a widespread perception that machinima is a game thing.

But here are a few counter-examples:

- Most of the guys who invented machinima would agree that Peter Rasmussen's pioneering film "Killer Robot" is machinima. That film was made using a 3D engine that Peter wrote, and there was never a game behind it.

- "The Movies" film tool isn't really a game either - the game is about running a studio, and then there's the other bit where you make films. The film-making section, especially if you're running in sandbox mode, can't really be described as "emergent gameplay".

- iClone is machinima, and there's no game there either.

So we don't see a dedicated machinima tool as contradictory. We see it as a way to make machinimators' lives a whole lot easier!

[Cruleworld]

So, what is Machinima?

Machinima (muh-sheen-eh-mah) is film making within a real-time, 3D virtual environment, often using 3D video-game technologies.

In an expanded definition, it is the convergence of film making, animation and game development. Machinima is real-world film making techniques applied within an interactive virtual space where characters and events can be either controlled by humans, scripts or artificial intelligence.

By combining the techniques of film making, animation production and the technology of real-time 3D game engines, Machinima makes for a very cost- and time-efficient way to produce films, with a large amount of creative control.

I remember this sorta thing happening on TM forums people would come in and say it wasn't machimia. but we all still considered it to be.

[aramikvideo]

Heck. My response is "What's in a name?" The technology is groundbreaking and just plain cool and very exciting. Like Daisy Duke says, "I don't what it is but I want it."

[Bryy M. Miller]

- "The Movies" film tool isn't really a game either

But it is.

It is a video game with recording elements.

I'm a bit afraid that you guys are trying to market yourselves to an area that you're not.

[FLeeF]

I won't pretend to know what the founders of machinima meant when they settled on the word. All I know is what sets it apart from the traditional 3D animation I used to twiddle my thumbs to while waiting for a frame to render: machinima is recorded as it happens - come what may - with all it's accidental keepers and wasted footage on the virtual cutting room floor.

I've always been too impatient to try and attain near Toy Story image quality, so machinima let's me work live and totally interactive on the set.

Some of what Moviestorm is going to handle for me is one of the parts I really like about machinima: following around the goofy little half-brained in-game lifeforms with my camera and trying to get the shot in spite of my actors' rebellious and spontaneous retardation.

Make no mistake though. I will gladly trade that enjoyable nightmare for full ownership of my films.

Please pardon the ramble. :oops:

[EwanG]

- iClone is machinima, and there's no game there either.

Well, since you've now mentioned the other guys yourself... Feel free to delete this and answer via PM if you prefer...

Currently I'm using iClone 2 because it's a released product - and I had started work on my current project before I found out about MovieStorm. The alpha version of the project will come out using the iClone2 content because my alpha screeners are expecting a drop in the next few weeks, and there's no way I could port to MovieStorm in that timeframe.

The final product is being targeted for a Labor Day (approximately) release, and so I could conceivably move the project over during that work portion.

My point being, where do you see MovieStorm being the same/different from iClone? Are y'all targeting different developer audiences? Are you going to go for a different price point? More (or less) predefined content? Something(s) else?

Thanks,
Ewan

[Ben_S]

My point being, where do you see MovieStorm being the same/different from iClone? Are y'all targeting different developer audiences? Are you going to go for a different price point? More (or less) predefined content? Something(s) else?

From a brief brief look at iClone, I would say that our main differences are that Moviestorm is more designed to let its users easily tell a story, of their choice.

I think our camera systems are more flexible, although I may have missed some important functionality when trying iClone with the camerawork.

iClone has some very nice sets, but they seem to be a limited number of pre-built sets. While we do also intend to (maybe) have some pre-built sets, the main idea within Moviestorm is the assemble-your-own-set approach.

More may follow...

[Bryy M. Miller]

In response to iClone, many tools call themselves machinima when they are not. Machinima needs a better definition.

[Tardcore]

Indeed it does. Any suggestions?

[Bryy M. Miller]

Well, for starters, the definition we have right now doesn't really separate it from regular CGI, nor does it represent at all what it actually pertains to.

[Toriel]

In the original definition it is said to be video captured in real time within a virtual 3D environment.

I think that this definition is the one that is most accepted now (or agreed upon).

It does not matter if the capture is completely scripted in advance, improvised or from playing a game. It also (I believe) separates it from regular CGI as CGIs are basically created to be used with other media (generally real life footage).

If you want to be picky, I would have to say that Second Life is not a game at all but movies made within that world is accepted as Machinima.

Of course you could argue that all of the Pixar movies are Machinima and I would have to say that you're probably right. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Tardcore]

Think of Second Life as a game, since I feel that most of the reason people despise to think of it as a game is that it is unlike standard MMO's i.e. Warrock, CS:S, CoH, EVE, EQ, or etc. It's still a game, but it's like those non-violent games sold in stores, like lemmings, and Lego Star Wars.

Sorry if this seems a little disjointed, I'm tired from Fitness training at school

[matt]

Of course you could argue that all of the Pixar movies are Machinima and I would have to say that you're probably right.

Pixar movies are the complete opposite of machinima. Every frame of a Pixar movie is rendered offline, sometimes taking days. Every movement of a character is controlled by directly controlling the skeleton and skin of the character, and the animator is expected to create precisely the movements required to get the shot.

Machinima is rendered in realtime, it's controlled using a library of animations, and it really couldn't be a more different process.