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Attaching particles to Moviestorm props, it's a bit complicated
 
Ben_S
post Feb 2 2012, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE (Nahton @ Feb 2 2012, 06:00 AM) *
ARGH!! The syntax will get you every time. That was inexcusable. I must have been lulled by the lower case "bone" in the tags.

As to the effect tags, it appears you are telling me it needs to be a hand edit after setting them in place and saving the state info as there was no way to get "playeffect" to populate automatically. I see the argument can be done in the Modders workshop, now that I know what it is looking for.

I might be telling you that; I think it is how I set up the wands/torch/sparkler. There are a few things that I find easier to change in the xml in a text editor than in the modders workshop.

That said, the Edit Custom Event dialogue seems to provide a dropdown for the different values of the action, and let you specify the argument, which needs to be the name of the particle effect as specified in the template.

QUOTE
I'm uploading a demo as I type this. The effect is working but shooting down. I need to research directional tags. I may have to look into adding an emitter bone closer to the end of the cone and I need to do something about the see through inner material for straight on shots if I can.

Thanks Ben!


The particle effect specifies a direction in it's xml, I think. It may be possible to take a copy of the one you want to use (give it a different name, add it to your adding in a similar folder, and change the template to refer to the new one), then change it's xml.

You might be able to make the funnel double sided within the material as set up in the modder workshop, which would solve being able to see through it. Although double sided doesnt show lighting correctly, so for many things it is better to correct the model in the modeling program.


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Nahton
post Feb 2 2012, 2:42 PM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 2 2012, 05:46 AM) *
I might be telling you that; I think it is how I set up the wands/torch/sparkler. There are a few things that I find easier to change in the xml in a text editor than in the modders workshop.


Hmmm...so when you select "playEffect" from the drop-down rather then adding "playEffect" into the statemachine it adds "handleCustomEvent" as a placeholder for you to go in and change the information in an xml text editor.


QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 2 2012, 05:46 AM) *
The particle effect specifies a direction in it's xml, I think. It may be possible to take a copy of the one you want to use (give it a different name, add it to your adding in a similar folder, and change the template to refer to the new one), then change it's xml.


I will give this a look but I had another thought that could be totally off base but I'm going to ask anyway. Could the direction be mapped to the bone axis alignment? In my 3D modeling program there is a blue axis pointing down on the bone I am using as the emitter bone. If I rotated that to align it so it is pointing out toward the end of the spout is there any chance the effect will map to that alignment. I am going to try adding a bone to the skeleton to have the effect appear closer to the end of the spout anyway so I'll give it a shot.


QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 2 2012, 05:46 AM) *
You might be able to make the funnel double sided within the material as set up in the modder workshop, which would solve being able to see through it. Although double sided doesn't show lighting correctly, so for many things it is better to correct the model in the modeling program.


I'm hoping the double sided tick box works because I think fixing it the modeling program might break something when I tried to substitute the CAL files into the mod. I'm still a little fearful for my planned skeleton changes.
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Poulet Noir
post Feb 2 2012, 5:45 PM
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QUOTE (Nahton @ Feb 2 2012, 02:42 PM) *
I'm hoping the double sided tick box works because I think fixing it the modeling program might break something when I tried to substitute the CAL files into the mod. I'm still a little fearful for my planned skeleton changes.

The "double-sided" tick box should work, I've successfully used it on costumes I've played with.


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Ben_S
post Feb 2 2012, 6:03 PM
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QUOTE (Nahton @ Feb 2 2012, 02:42 PM) *
Hmmm...so when you select "playEffect" from the drop-down rather then adding "playEffect" into the statemachine it adds "handleCustomEvent" as a placeholder for you to go in and change the information in an xml text editor.

I think playEffect maps on to <playbackFlags>1</playbackFlags>, although I'm not entirely sure.
Definatly worth experimenting, and changing things in a text editor to make it more similar to the examples that allready work (eg open up the StateMachine from Core/Data up in a text editor and search for the spell effect names such as 'spell4').

QUOTE
I will give this a look but I had another thought that could be totally off base but I'm going to ask anyway. Could the direction be mapped to the bone axis alignment? In my 3D modeling program there is a blue axis pointing down on the bone I am using as the emitter bone. If I rotated that to align it so it is pointing out toward the end of the spout is there any chance the effect will map to that alignment. I am going to try adding a bone to the skeleton to have the effect appear closer to the end of the spout anyway so I'll give it a shot.

I think the default direction is aligned to one of the axes of the bone. There is a transform in the .mps file that represents a matrix that transforms the particle effect as compared to the bone direction.
<transform>
<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0.0</m01>
<m02>1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>
<m10>0.0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>
<m20>-1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>
<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>
</transform>
is from one of the wand ones. I think if you want it to be straight ahead, then the m00, m11, m22 and m33 values would all need to be 1, and the others would need to be 0 (ie an identity matrix).


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Nahton
post Feb 6 2012, 4:59 AM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 2 2012, 01:03 PM) *
I think playEffect maps on to <playbackFlags>1</playbackFlags>, although I'm not entirely sure.
Definitely worth experimenting, and changing things in a text editor to make it more similar to the examples that allready work (eg open up the StateMachine from Core/Data up in a text editor and search for the spell effect names such as 'spell4').


I think the default direction is aligned to one of the axes of the bone. There is a transform in the .mps file that represents a matrix that transforms the particle effect as compared to the bone direction.
<transform>
<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0.0</m01>
<m02>1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>
<m10>0.0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>
<m20>-1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>
<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>
</transform>
is from one of the wand ones. I think if you want it to be straight ahead, then the m00, m11, m22 and m33 values would all need to be 1, and the others would need to be 0 (ie an identity matrix).


Ben,

Can I get a little more information as to how these transform numbers work? The wand is actually set to these coordinates for Wand_04_Blue.mps:

<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0.0</m01>
<m02>1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>

<m10>0.0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>

<m20>-1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>

<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>

When I use these on my prop emitter_bone it shoots the smoke straight down. Your recommended setting shoots the smoke level and at a right angle toward the puppets left. I would hate the tell you how many permutations I've done on this tweaking one setting at a time to try to make some logical sense out of what each grouping does or each set of these changes whether there be some commonality between the unit field's (01,12,21, 31) or the grouping of the 00's 10's 20's, 30's affecting a specific behavior.

Should only one in each x1-x3 set have a value other then zero? I believe the values should be either 1,0, or -1 to change based on the files I looked at. For my prop this setting <m22>1</m22> always make the smoke go to the left of the puppet. I've changed the direction through various settings to shoot the stream right of the puppet, back at the puppet and down, into some sort of diffused ball of smoke rather then a stream and off-set from the puppet. Every time I think I'm getting to a logical progression I get a behavior change that doesn't make sense. Plus, at this point I'm getting a little cross-eyed from lookin at my notes. blink.gif

Thanks!
Thanks
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Ben_S
post Feb 6 2012, 11:48 AM
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It's a 4x4 transform matrix. The numbers you want to play with are 1 or -1.
This is the identity that doesnt transform the direction at all
1 0 0 0
0 1 0 0
0 0 1 0
0 0 0 1

I think this would be represented by
m00 m01 m02 m03
m10 m11 m12 m13
m20 m21 m22 m23
m30 m31 m32 m33

If you want a transformation that keeps things pointing along axes, only use a single 1 (or -1) on each row or column, and always keep m33 as 1.


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Ben_S
post Feb 6 2012, 12:08 PM
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It appears that you want the particle effect to be going in the negative x direction (looking at the bone on the FireExtinguisher prop in the modders workshop, on the Bones tab) - ie the oposite direction from the wands particles.
Try this:

<transform>
<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0.0</m01>
<m02>-1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>
<m10>0.0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>
<m20>-1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>
<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>
</transform>


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Nahton
post Feb 6 2012, 4:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 6 2012, 07:08 AM) *
It appears that you want the particle effect to be going in the negative x direction (looking at the bone on the FireExtinguisher prop in the modders workshop, on the Bones tab) - ie the oposite direction from the wands particles.
Try this:

<transform>
<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0.0</m01>
<m02>-1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>
<m10>0.0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>
<m20>-1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>
<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>
</transform>


Ben,

This setting shoots the smoke up and at a slight angle toward the puppet. I'm in way over my head but I'm going to throw out a theory. Could this be because the angle of the spout changes once the puppet picks it up due to the prop being animated and it isn't so much aimed by the characters arm movement? It makes some sense if the above coordinates were set to shoot straight ahead and the origin point is tilted up, that the spray orientation could move with the spout. I could test this later by putting an effect on the extinguisher in the carry position.

If this is possible, could any other values be changed to compensate for the movement? I'm thinking in particular of this one:

class="fuze3d.particles.PointDirectionalEmitter">
<coneAngleRadians>0.5</coneAngleRadians>
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Ben_S
post Feb 7 2012, 11:11 AM
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Idealy it would be better to aim the bone that the particles are attached to correctly out of the spout (which would require a skeleton change to your model). The bone is not quite pointing along the axis of the spout, in the version I looked at initially.
If the bone the particles are attached to is not animating with the rest of the object, then that would be a flaw in the animations, I'm afraid, but it does seem to change position with the animation, as seen in the picture of the modders workshop (attached).
In that, the top image is the bone position in the rest pose, and the bottom one is during the sprayexsidedtoside anim.

The coneAngleRadians value determines how wide the cone is in which the particles are emitted.

Try this
<transform>
<m00>0</m00>
<m01>0</m01>
<m02>-1</m02>
<m03>0</m03>
<m10>0</m10>
<m11>1</m11>
<m12>0.0</m12>
<m13>0.0</m13>
<m20>1</m20>
<m21>0.0</m21>
<m22>0</m22>
<m23>0.0</m23>
<m30>0.0</m30>
<m31>0.0</m31>
<m32>0.0</m32>
<m33>1</m33>
</transform>

Or with m02 at 1 instead of -1.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  fireextinguisher_bone.png ( 163.47K ) Number of downloads: 8
 


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Nahton
post Feb 8 2012, 2:03 AM
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Ben,

I had to step it back a little before I provided a valid response to your last suggestion. I had actually changed the skeleton of the mod from the original that I had sent you. I added an additional emitter_bone that was extended. In the process of trying to get the smoke to shoot straight out I went back into my 3D program and tried to align the bone axis to be the same as the Fairy Wand. This in theory should have messed up the baseline for the transform settings but for some reason it doesn't seem to affect them.

I just got done changing back to the original skeleton and checking the alignment to be sure it was the same as in your picture. I then tested changing the transform settings. I'm to the point where I had a spreadsheet to keep track of them and amazingly the direction of the spray out of the emitter_bone is identical on the two different skeletons even though the bone set to emit has different axis orientations on each of them. I posted a demo video on this to show you and embedded it below.

My question is "How can this be?" If the skeleton swap didn't take the mod would not function. I could see the different orientations in the Modders Workshop. I confirmed they changed when I reverted back to the original skeleton. The other thing that perplexes me is that even after I extended the emitter bone on the newer skeleton it did not seem to extend out the origin of the smoke. (I actually created a bone called the "emitter_bone" and changed the prop template to point to this bone)

Is there some way that the program is holding on to some original code from the first version of the mod? I blew up the mod at one point when putting in the extended emitter_bone and had to rebuild some verbs and events so I went back through and saved the State Info. Is there anything else I could have missed that would retain the settings and allow the mod to funtion with a different skeleton?



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Ben_S
post Feb 8 2012, 10:54 AM
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Each prop only uses one skeleton file - if there is any addon with a folder Data/Props/FireExtinguisher that contains a file ending .csf other than your FireFighter addon, that could interfer with the new skeleton. Similarly, if you have more than one skeleton in the FireExtinguisher folder, or in any of its sub folders, that could result in Moviestorm using a different one to the one you intended.

In the modders workshop, on the 'bones' tab, you should be able to click through the different bone tree (as in my previous screenshots), and see the different axes of the bones. That should let you see if it is using the skeleton you expect it to be using.


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Nahton
post Feb 8 2012, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 8 2012, 05:54 AM) *
Each prop only uses one skeleton file - if there is any addon with a folder Data/Props/FireExtinguisher that contains a file ending .csf other than your FireFighter addon, that could interfer with the new skeleton. Similarly, if you have more than one skeleton in the FireExtinguisher folder, or in any of its sub folders, that could result in Moviestorm using a different one to the one you intended.

In the modders workshop, on the 'bones' tab, you should be able to click through the different bone tree (as in my previous screenshots), and see the different axes of the bones. That should let you see if it is using the skeleton you expect it to be using.

I only have one skeleton in the folder. I did the click through to see the added bones. At one point the axis widget sunk through the floor on the extended version in the static pose. Maybe it looks like the smoke origin isn't moving further down the spout for the point of origin because it's basically not shooting out straight in any fashion.

This leaves me asking what is different from the wand and the extinguisher.

1) The extinguisher has it's own animation built in.
2) I allowed it to be in the Set dressing browser

So my next step is to make a different version of the extinguisher in a default, raised spout pose and have the animation set to jump to the spray poses to for use prop. I will also not allow it to be placed on the set. It's a work around but it's all I can think of to get around this.
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Ben_S
post Feb 8 2012, 3:06 PM
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I have a hard time believing that the differences between the wand and your extinguisher that you are describing are the significant ones.
Would I be able to see a new copy of the addon with your current progress included?


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Nahton
post Feb 9 2012, 5:23 AM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 8 2012, 10:06 AM) *
I have a hard time believing that the differences between the wand and your extinguisher that you are describing are the significant ones.
Would I be able to see a new copy of the addon with your current progress included?

Yeah, it might be a bit naive to imply those were the only differences, especially when there are so many variables at play. I was thinking of what is different with the props in terms of behavior, or characteristics.

I realize now that any attempts I made to change the orientation of the added emitter bone were negated once the animation started as I was trying to hot swap it into the mod folder without correcting the animation. You can see this on the attachment.

The image on the left is the prop in static mode placed on the set. The middle image is the prop at the start of the "Pickup to Carry" animation just barely advanced on the animation window. The third smaller image is from the "SidetoSide" animation to show the spout raised.

More interesting to me is that the axis can be seen on the new emitter_bone which I extended beyond the spout in the static pose but seems to slide down into the middle of the spout where the original bone was once the animation starts. It is detecting it as a different bone though as if I click back and forth the axis angle changes slightly while pivoting around the same point. The only way to extend the skeleton and change the axis would be to start from scratch in my 3D modeling program. I could then try pivoting the emitter down as the spout is raised during the animation. I will try this out with a single animation before I put to much effort into redoing it.

If you want to look at the current state addon, here's the story. I've scrapped the mod version related to the attachment and reverted back to the original skeleton. I will send you that version in an email. I retried you last suggestions and still haven't found the magic combination to make it shoot straight. I have it set to shoot a "ball" of smoke straight ahead but it doesn't go any distance and immediately disperses.
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Attached File  FE_AXIS_CHANGE.jpg ( 52.75K ) Number of downloads: 5
 
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Nahton
post Feb 9 2012, 9:50 PM
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I just wanted to provide an update for anyone following along with this thread. Ben helped me via email and I'm back on track. The Fire Extinguisher now shoots straight! I just have a few more things I want to try to tweak before I release it.

Ben is the man! WOOT!

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gspoutnik
post Dec 3 2012, 4:11 PM
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Hello
Can you help me i would like to have fire on a match held prop.
I tryed to add the code to my template but now my mesh no more appear in modders and dont work...
Thanks
do you have an example because i can't find the template of the original fx...

i'm working with 3dsmax for 10 years and i can do a lot of things for the community if someone could help me at the start.
thanks
a french moviestormer

<string>HAllumetteBed_mesh</string>
</meshes>
<materials>
<material>
<name>AllumetteBed [0]</name>
<ambientColor>0.5859375 0.5859375 0.5859375 0.0</ambientColor>
<diffuseColor>0.5859375 0.5859375 0.5859375 0.99609375</diffuseColor>
<emissiveColor>0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0</emissiveColor>
<specularColor>0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0</specularColor>
<shininess>11.0</shininess>
<maps>
<entry>
<string>emissiveMap</string>
<string>Data/Props/AllumetteBed/Textures/allumettes_emissive.jpg</string>
</entry>
<entry>
<string>diffuseMap</string>
<string>Textures/Allumettes.jpg</string>
</entry>
</maps>
<flags/>
<parameters/>
</material>
</materials>
<bindings>
<boneBindings>
<EffectBinding>
<name>flame</name>
<bone>emitter_bone</Bone003>
<mpsPath>Data/fx/Fire_01_Bonfire_Small.mps</mpsPath>
<light>
<type>flicker</type>
<color>1 0.95 0.4 1</color>
<halo>
<radius>0.8</radius>
<offset>0.05</offset>
</halo>
</light>
</EffectBinding>
</boneBindings>
</bindings>
</mscope.things.factory.ModelTemplate>

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Ben_S
post Dec 3 2012, 5:33 PM
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CODE
<string>HAllumetteBed_mesh</string>
  </meshes>
  <materials>
    <material>
      <name>AllumetteBed [0]</name>
      <ambientColor>0.5859375 0.5859375 0.5859375 0.0</ambientColor>
      <diffuseColor>0.5859375 0.5859375 0.5859375 0.99609375</diffuseColor>
      <emissiveColor>0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0</emissiveColor>
      <specularColor>0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0</specularColor>
      <shininess>11.0</shininess>
      <maps>
        <entry>
          <string>emissiveMap</string>
          <string>Data/Props/AllumetteBed/Textures/allumettes_emissive.jpg</string>
        </entry>
        <entry>
          <string>diffuseMap</string>
          <string>Textures/Allumettes.jpg</string>
        </entry>
      </maps>
      <flags/>
      <parameters/>
    </material>
  </materials>
   <bindings>
    <boneBindings>
        <EffectBinding>
            <name>flame</name>
            <bone>emitter_bone</Bone003>
            <mpsPath>Data/fx/Fire_01_Bonfire_Small.mps</mpsPath>
            <light>
                <type>flicker</type>
                <color>1 0.95 0.4 1</color>
                <halo>
                    <radius>0.8</radius>
                    <offset>0.05</offset>
                </halo>
            </light>                
        </EffectBinding>
    </boneBindings>
  </bindings>
</mscope.things.factory.ModelTemplate>


This is not all of a template; it is missing some bits at the start. If your saved template is also missing the bits at the start, it will not work.


Does your match have a bone called 'emitter_bone'?
Have you changed the match to be a PyroProp (in the prop type)?

For an example, I would suggest looking at the sparkler in the SpecialEffects pack; the template will be in a matching place in the modders workshop pack installation.


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gspoutnik
post Dec 3 2012, 6:16 PM
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Does your match have a bone called 'emitter_bone'? NO my bone for emitter is called "bone"
Have you changed the match to be a PyroProp (in the prop type)? YES
I put my addon in the attached file ... Can you please look at it.
this is important to me I must present my animatic Wednesday
thank you

match=allumette (french)
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Attached File  Gil_HeldPropBed.rar ( 922.84K ) Number of downloads: 3
 
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primaveranz
post Dec 3 2012, 8:03 PM
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QUOTE (gspoutnik @ Dec 4 2012, 6:16 AM) *
Does your match have a bone called 'emitter_bone'? NO my bone for emitter is called "bone"
Have you changed the match to be a PyroProp (in the prop type)? YES
I put my addon in the attached file ... Can you please look at it.
this is important to me I must present my animatic Wednesday
thank you

match=allumette (french)

I'm guessing here, but I suspect the bone name is crucial for the MS code to identify it correctly (this is the case with vehicles anyway). have you tried changing it?


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"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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gspoutnik
post Dec 3 2012, 8:32 PM
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Yes my upper bone is now called "emitter_bone" & my held prop is Pyroprop.

i dont understand nothing change in moviestorm scene i have my prop with my animation but no particles and no light to.

can you tell me if the structure of my files folders is good ?
Can you summarize me the good procedure to get a heldprop with particles and light...

I made a animated sequence of a couple who goes to bed, making love (soft) then the man lights a cigarette with a match, the woman takes the cigarette at his lips and smokes... activities are divided into gestures, a dozen in total. It represents a lot of work and it lacks the effect on the match to finish my full addon.

thank you for helping me.
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