modding in regards of 3D and animation

[RingerT]

Hi,

maybe, this was already answered before somewhere here, but I just havn´t found a complete answer to these points, so I just ask again and please don´t shoot me, if erveryone except me already knows this :-)

In the final version of moviestorm, what exactly can be done in regards of importing own 3D geometry and animation of this geometry?

I read something about CAL3D.
I´m not familliar with this, but I saw, that there are exporters for 3ds max and Blender for that file format. So is it correct, that we will be able to create our own geometry with textures and shaders and import it into moviestorm with the cal-file format?

And can this geometry also be animated?
I read, that CAL3d is especially for animation, so I guess, it should be possible to import custom made animation.

I also read, that for importing animations for the already existing characters, it´s necessary to use the moviestorm-standard-skeleton while creating the animation, right? And in reverse, if you want a custom made character and want to use the already existing animation-files from Moviestorm, you also have to use the standard-skeleton for the character-geometry, right?

But what if you just want an original animation for a custom made geometry? This might be a creature with more than two legs or just some kind of non-character-geometry like a opening and closing chest or a collapsing wall for example?

Could all that just made in Blender or max and then imported into Moviestorm to work side-by-side with the other characters and probs that comes with Moviestorm?

Are there any limitations for that and are there any more informations about that available somewhere?

RingerT

[febe films]

Thanks for your questions. I really want to know, too (and answers all in one place will be helpful).

[Ben_S]

The 'final version of moviestorm' doesnt currently exist. It may never, if we continue improving things, but we will get to having a comercial version, which might sort of count.

Our artists keep producing more animations; some of which are for stuff other than the basic characters; we do anticipate having other characters with different bones and meshes at some point.

And we have props which animate, which will do for simple stuff.

I think there is a plan that some interns will be set on trying to get a blender importer working; I think we are getting inturns in July some time.

So, I dont realy know, but that is a little taster of our plans for the future.

[Clint]

It's all about getting support for the .obj format working. Most everything out there can export to that.

The surest way to getting software into Moviestorm would probably be to use what the Moviestorm folks are using... since evidence points to it actually working. Any word out yet on what 3D modeling software that is used by the team itself?

[RingerT]

Sorry for asking again, but I´m a little confused.

So is it true, that we will be able to use 3D geometry with or without animation, that is created in an external software (3ds max or Blender or...) in Moviestorm?

Will there be a pipeline to get this custom-made stuff into Moviestorm?
I mean, if I need a special object, can I create it in 3ds max and import it into moviestorm to fill my set?

As far as I understand, this should be possible, so what I miss is an answer to my question, that reads: "of course, that will be possible".

I read in the forum a statement, that everything the moviestorm-crew can do, the user will be able to do too. So will I be able to create my own stuff or not?

Please don´t get me wrong. I´m just very curious about that.

RingerT

[Clint]

From the beginning they have talked about user created content and characters.

As far as I've been able to figure out, they decided to use Cal3D because it is particularly suited for the type of controlled skeletal animation that Moviestorm is designed for. This is what is making the characters so controllable. From what they've said, as long as your package exports to Cal3D you will be able to take those characters into Moviestorm.. I'm guessing that this is within certain skeletal parameters; bipedal droids and dinosaurs that fit within a certain size envelope should be within reason... the tripods from War of the Worlds... trickier.

The drawback is a dearth of support for the most used 3D modeling software. The only commercial package that I've found to support Cal3D is 3DS Max... good if you already have it or are willing to pay out the $3500. There is a buggy old exporter or Maya... or at least Maya from two or three versions back.

As well, there appears to be support in Blender and Milkshape... but they aren't any where near as mature and user friendly as the commercial packages.

I think that if it would be in Moviestorm's best interests to create (or commission the creation of) exporters for the most popular 3D packages. I'd say that the key four would be Maya ($2000), Lightwave ($800), Softimage|XSI ($2000) and Mojo ($900). Lightwave and Maya should be first based on price and popularity- but Softimage|XSI is pretty popular as well and Mojo seems to be gaining a lot of fans for its user friendly interface, speed and quality.

It strikes me as restricting to keep the creation side locked into either the most expensive 3D Package or the most difficult to use 3D packages.

[Clint]

Just adding that the XSI Mod Tool, even though it is stuck at version 4.2, would be a prime target for an export to Cal3D plugin or script.

It isn't as up to date as the other packages but it is more usable than Blender or Milkshape and there are plenty of resources out there for learning to use it.

And it is tough to beat the $0 price tag... even though they really need to bring out a XSI Mod Tool v6.0.

[Dave]

As you know, Cal3d is our principal 3d model and animation format because it provides good support for skeletal skinned characters. At the moment the only package we know that works well with this is 3DS MAX. The Blender support is apparently a little stale. We will be spending some effort in improving this as we quite understand that 3DS MAX is out of reach of most people.

We're also investigating Collada which is being touted as the next generation model format (SketchUp uses a variant of it) along with CgFX for materials.

We also have legacy support for .obj and Milkshape .ms3d files - this is not enabled in Moviestorm at the moment and only supports static models (no animations) - but I could see it being useful for some.

[Clint]

Collada seems to have more support in the community than Cal3D and you folks would be in the best position to know if it can do the job well enough.

While my package (Lightwave) doesn't seem interested in officially supporting it, Maya and XSI are supporting Collada and that would make things a lot more accessible to a much larger user base. I could see myself buying the feature limited version of XSI v6 that they sell for about $500 (or the XSI Mod Tool v4.2 for free) - as long as it works smoothly with Moviestorm.

3DS Max... I'd have to be making money off Moviestorm to consider buying that one.

The support of .obj should allow me to create static props in Lightwave which would be a good thing.

And I really appreciate how open Moviestorm is about discussing things like this.

[mrjoyce]

We're also investigating Collada which is being touted as the next generation model format (SketchUp uses a variant of it) along with CgFX for materials.

Looking at the site for Collada it seems to be able to be sort of a pipeline in which we can take content or 3D models and sort them into the proper format for Moviestorm. Would this be similar to the program iClone is using to allow models to be imported into iClone?

Basically I would love to take some set models I've made in SketchUp and bring them into Moviestorm without having to reinvent the wheel which is what it feels like when I'm doing when I try to use Blender to import and export files.

[timq]

Just a cursory google. by Collada seems preferable to me over Cal3D - they have a maya plugin, which works for me. Cal3D looked kinda messy - I don't want to have to do my own compiles!
Collada gets my vote. For the time being, at least....

[Dave]

Collada is looking good as an import format and it would be fab to get SketchUp sets into Moviestorm. I'll dig deeper and do some experimentation and report back.

[DavidB]

we've been working hard to get the main engineering right, but we did not forget the idea of an import pipeline. We have 4 volunteers coming in house to work on this in mid July, and we expect it to be messy and require a lot of programming and QA help to get it "just right".

we will try to release "how to" guides as soon as we possibly can.

more from Ben and Dave soon.

[EwanG]

We have 4 volunteers coming in house to work on this in mid July, and we expect it to be messy and require a lot of programming and QA help to get it "just right".

we will try to release "how to" guides as soon as we possibly can.

Has there been an update on the status of this? For those of us needing certain outdoor environments, one of the big hangs at the moment is the inability to build our own set. Or is that available elsewhere and I've just missed it?

[lucindamc123]

We have 4 volunteers coming in house to work on this in mid July, and we expect it to be messy and require a lot of programming and QA help to get it "just right".

we will try to release "how to" guides as soon as we possibly can.

Has there been an update on the status of this? For those of us needing certain outdoor environments, one of the big hangs at the moment is the inability to build our own set. Or is that available elsewhere and I've just missed it?

Evan, at this point it is indeed not only possible but very easy to design your own sets - take a look at any of my movies and you will see what I mean.



http://www.veoh.com/publish/myVideos.html

Most of these movies are also available here but it is easier to watch them at VEOH. I have built entire cities with new buildings made from simple objects, my own artwork and photographs. And I don't even know how to mod. I also use a lot of bacdrops. I really hope you will watch these movies and see how easy this is to do. Far easier than trying to made whole new mods.

[EwanG]

Most of these movies are also available here but it is easier to watch them at VEOH. I have built entire cities with new buildings made from simple objects, my own artwork and photographs. And I don't even know how to mod. I also use a lot of bacdrops.

You might want to redo the link you provided. Currently it takes me to a sign-in page rather than to your videos.

While I appreciate that there is much that can be done with a proper backdrop, the movie I've been waiting to make using MS requires some indoor scenes in a couple different cabins, an arts/crafts room, a dining hall, and several outdoor mountain scenes. Also a bit of cave exploration. Oh, and one scene in a canoe. For those kinds of setups, just using a backdrop without the ability for the "actors" to sit on a bed, or talk about things across the dining hall table would be hard to do. Not impossible I'm sure, but difficult enough that the point of using MS as a way to make this "easier" would kind of go away.

Still, it probably would be a great way for many folks to get what they need from MS while waiting for the 3D import ability.

[lucindamc123]

Most of these movies are also available here but it is easier to watch them at VEOH. I have built entire cities with new buildings made from simple objects, my own artwork and photographs. And I don't even know how to mod. I also use a lot of bacdrops.

You might want to redo the link you provided. Currently it takes me to a sign-in page rather than to your videos.

While I appreciate that there is much that can be done with a proper backdrop, the movie I've been waiting to make using MS requires some indoor scenes in a couple different cabins, an arts/crafts room, a dining hall, and several outdoor mountain scenes. Also a bit of cave exploration. Oh, and one scene in a canoe. For those kinds of setups, just using a backdrop without the ability for the "actors" to sit on a bed, or talk about things across the dining hall table would be hard to do. Not impossible I'm sure, but difficult enough that the point of using MS as a way to make this "easier" would kind of go away.

Still, it probably would be a great way for many folks to get what they need from MS while waiting for the 3D import ability.

Here is a better link.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v11110544EXFkSyh

I have done interiors using backdrops that people cannot even tell are backdrops. This is amazing software.

[bongoman]

...We also have legacy support for .obj and Milkshape .ms3d files - this is not enabled in Moviestorm at the moment and only supports static models (no animations) - but I could see it being useful for some.

Yes, I'd love to get models in & out of Moviestorm, the sooner the better, but ones IO can rig for animation at least outside of Moviestorm.. 'Legacy support' - ? What must I do to get it? The biggest issue in machinima is continuity... Moviestorm can fill that hole, but it's got to be flexible.
Could you make a couple of your models available so I can rig them for use in another engine?