41 replies to this topic

[urbanlamb]

Hi so I managed to get my brain around the menus and am almost comfortable with the file system

So now my next issue is this ..clearly I am not an animator I only ever learned the basics but anyhow....

I think this is a moviestorm issue not an animating issue

my character is moving when I dont want him to and I am not sure why. err perhaps its those check boxes but not positive..

I have solved the rotation issues around milkshape and have figured how to do this back to front but.. why is my character after moving past the object doing the final animation set starting by returning to what is basically the start position without me telling him too? lol

here is the video the first part opening the door is correct

the second part I tell him to close the door after moving through the entrance, but for some reason he wont stay put and walks back through the doorway to close the door..



*scratches head* so he kicks the door .. but not from where I want him too ..

Is moviestorm doing something by default I am not aware of? lol

[urbanlamb]

err I got it.. it was another milkshape bass ackwards problem that was mixing things up.

suffice it to say really complicated animations require better um ability to think bass ackwards then I can do I think, but anyhow I have him stopping where he is supposed to now..

onwards to picking a phone off the hook ....

[corthew]

the second part I tell him to close the door after moving through the entrance, but for some reason he wont stay put and walks back through the doorway to close the door.

The thing I hate is when his hand reaches through the door to the knob on the other side.

[urbanlamb]

well to be honest I think that moviestorm should look into making its software more compatible with a wider range of programs instead of making users use things like milkshape or purchase 3dsmax. Its holding this engine back in ways which I can't even begin to explain. It bothers me that I can animate and fully rig an avatar using blender and import it into iclone, but am forced to use software that doesnt even interpret object files correctly and have to stand on my head just to make a guy walk through a doorway.

I think moviestorm is a fun bit of software but it would have much more users if they set their sites on things like making the mod workshop compatible with things like blender. They managed to make it useable with sketchup though. The reality is though that a great deal of the amateur machinma community uses blender and for good reason lol. This community would leap forward in huge bounds if users were not restricted and crippled because of the tools they are forced to use to make it all work.

I enjoy moviestorm but I have to be honest and say that because I can use blender (well) and have pretty much learned to create entire avatars in it at this point bones and all and am on the cusp of learning to animate them Iclone is starting to look pretty good because it just took me close to a week to do something which I could have done in an hour "only if"

[lucindamc123]

The problem isn't with Moviestorm. It is because Blender doesn't have a way to export the files in the proper way for them to be able to be imported into Moviestorm as animated props and Milkshape and Misfit do export the files, mesh, materials, animations in the correct format. Now if you can export Blender files as obj files then you could import them into Milkshape and animate the models for use with Moviestorm.

[urbanlamb]

The problem isn't with Moviestorm. It is because Blender doesn't have a way to export the files in the proper way for them to be able to be imported into Moviestorm as animated props and Milkshape and Misfit do export the files, mesh, materials, animations in the correct format. Now if you can export Blender files as obj files then you could import them into Milkshape and animate the models for use with Moviestorm.

Actually blender is an open sourced project and moviestorm is run by coders it seems to me that it would be a reasonable task and good publicity as well if the coders running moviestorm created an importer that worked with the mod shop. They did manage to do it for sketchup though.

I already do this round about bass ackwards way with milkshape you are required to work with the puppet upside down and backwards in order to make it work

The animations you see in that video were done in milkshape the issue here is that with a little effort someone from moviestorm could contribute the script to make it possible for moviestorm users to import using blender again they did it for sketchup

Aside from the fact that I would bet good money that a lot of us sitting here struggling with milkshape (which is a horrible bit of software by the way.. it realy is..) had an exporter for blender a lot higher quality stuff would be produced instead of us spending a week to do something simple

I know what the issue is however its just an excuse at this point as I have heard it way to many times on these boards and I think they are doing themselves a great diservice not spending the week or two needed to make things a bit more compatible. At the moment if you want to work with moviestorm and not go insane you are forced topurchase 3dsmax or spend weeks doing something that could otherwise be done in days if we had the right tools.

[corthew]

Part of the problem is that MS uses the .cal system for translating props and animation to the screen.
I can see why as I've gotten use to it. Cal is a very small package with a small memory footprint. Since MS runs on the 32bit Java platform this is pretty much necessary as far as I can see.

When they shift over to 64bit and/or get away from the Java engine they will have more flexibility.

I think its great though that they allow us to make our own props and animations for it though. And the low memory footprint overall compared to software like Iclone makes large sets with alot going on possible. I need that for what I'm attempting. Some of the scenes I'm working on would be impossible otherwise.

[primaveranz]

Now if you can export Blender files as obj files then you could import them into Milkshape and animate the models for use with Moviestorm.

You CAN export to .obj files from Blender but .obj files can't contain animations. The problem with Blender is that it currently can't export animations in Cal3D format (although there was a suitable plug-in for earlier versions ) . If we could do that there would be no need for Milkshape or Misfit 3d as Blender is a far superior tool.

[primaveranz]

.. struggling with milkshape (which is a horrible bit of software by the way.. it realy is..)

I disagree with you, for the cost and given it was developed by one guy, it is a pretty amazing piece of software. Blender had hundreds, if not thousands of developers and, while it is a far superior tool, Milkshape is excellent for knocking up quick low-poly props and simple animations like this one. It has totally changed the MS scene since Chris released his turorial. In fact statistically, you could almost argue that MS has become a tool for displaying Milkshape props and animations rather than making movies ; (Notice Chris' exhortation to Corthew

In my experience, Blender has a tendency to make simple objects too high poly for MS's purposes so you have to rework them. But then I am not a Blender expert and probably won't try to become one until the Cal3d exporter appears

[corthew]

(Notice Chris' exhortation to Corthew

If you're gonna reference one of the times Chris yelled at me you could at least link to it.

Or were you talking about the most recent one?

[primaveranz]

Yeah the one about making more movies -not exactly related but I suspect deep down Chris has the same uneasy feeling many of us have that moviemaking is no longer the priority here.

[Chris Ollis]

Yeah the one about making more movies -not exactly related but I suspect deep down Chris has the same uneasy feeling many of us have that moviemaking is no longer the priority here.

not really, I couldn't give a monkeys whether films being posted up are 90 minute epics, 5 minute dialogues or just a mod demo. It's all creative stuff, do what you want. My complaint was the telling someone off for uploading what they had created.


As for the Blender import/output discussion, if someone wants to spend those two weeks writing the code go for it, Moviestorm isn't stopping you, pretty sure MS tried encouraging it a while back with the java developer/partner program thing. But there certainly isn't the time or manpower to do it in the office.

[primaveranz]

I have no knowledge of the Java developer program thing.

I wonder what they wrote the original Blender Cal3D export in? I suspect unless it was in VB6, PHP, Bislama or Tetun I am not in the running for the work anyway.

I also wonder if it is possible to find an old version of Blender, use it to produce an old version of a Cal3d file and convert that to the MS version. But I am not wondering very hard....

[kkffoo]

If we are exchanging theories about why Chris does things, my personal take in the Delores case is;

Got up with headache,
Read last page of thread
Saw people picking on some most likely delightful person called Delores (Deloris)
Felt grumpy
Posted

My theory about the blender import code is that it would take longer than two weeks to do.
If the modders moved on to that, we could have absolutely loads going on, and next to no movies being posted.

Is it worth it? (Blender, not arguing with Chris)

[urbanlamb]

You CAN export to .obj files from Blender but .obj files can't contain animations. The problem with Blender is that it currently can't export animations in Cal3D format (although there was a suitable plug-in for earlier versions ) . If we could do that there would be no need for Milkshape or Misfit 3d as Blender is a far superior tool.

yeah people are not reading my post hehe

i am suggesting that moviestorm coders contribute the cal 3d exporter to the opensourced blender project to allow for its use without us having to import to another program so we can import into blender. As for milkshape I hate it lol its clunky and awkward to work with. However I see no reason why since both cal and blender are opensources someone does not take the time to at least create an exporter for moviestorm users and keep it up to date. I was reading the forums and the object behind using the cal3d and releasing their skeletons was to "level the playing field" so that more people could make mods however they have left out one vital piece here and its trying to make the most popular and useful open sources 3d program out there compatible.

I am not saying iclone is better I am saying that I see no reason other then time constraints for moviestorm to release a cal exporter that works with blender for moviestorm. It seems like a no brainer to me and would probably bring back a lot of the people who left because they were being restricted creatively as they were finding it very hard to make mods.

Iclone works differently it does not update in real time but with the advent of cloud and grid computing that is becoming less of an issue and its going to catch up as is daz in the speed of rendering department as cloud and grid computing are becoming mainstream. So it seems to me that moviestorm which has a lot of potential i would not be here if it did not could have a lot more potential if they added this one single tool.

Anyhow I keep hearing the same answer and no one really read my intitial post on the subject. So I kinda gave up. At least you read it so thanks

[urbanlamb]

Is it worth it? (Blender, not arguing with Chris)

I think it is i mean it attracted users away from moviestorm onto iclone lol

daz has gone out of its way as well to try to accomodate blender there has to be a reason for that with dollar signs at the end hehe

As for the response about making movies? well I am making a movie or three but they all have the same issue I cannot find what I need asset wise either in the moviestorm mods or addons that people have made so i am forced to do it myself. Animation in milkshape is a nightmare and so I cannot produce what I want to produce and the lack of resources is holding me back. So basically as I am sure it is with most projects the reality is you have to make your own mods or find someone to make em for you. I only know that what I am doing would be faster and easier if I was not forced to use milkshape as a middle step at every turn.

I cannot animate what I need to so basically a lot of my stuff is turning into exercises in frustration as I work on my stuff and say "nope can't do that have to find another way" every 10 minutes.

[Ben_S]

Time constraints are a very significant restriction on what we can do, and many of the things that are not being done for Moviestorm are not done because of time constraints.

Leaning blender api's is not something I expect us to be doing anytime soon.


That said, if you are interested in blender, have you tried Blend2Cal3D? I have no idea if it works with current versions, but it might be something to investigate.

[urbanlamb]

Time constraints are a very significant restriction on what we can do, and many of the things that are not being done for Moviestorm are not done because of time constraints.

Leaning blender api's is not something I expect us to be doing anytime soon.


That said, if you are interested in blender, have you tried Blend2Cal3D? I have no idea if it works with current versions, but it might be something to investigate.

i have a python script that is old for moviestorm for blender and it does not work :0

i dont know if that is the same thing though so I will go check that out. Sorry for the whine but I am not enjoying trying to think upside down and backwards in milkshape and its making me feel restricted creatively as prima points out its okay for "simple" stuff lol. There is no way I can create from scratch inside milkshape its simply too clunky a program. At the moment I am just frustrated by they fact that every item i make I have to run through milkshape first and turn upside down and backwards and then stuff bones in it there and redo all the materials/textures. I can create complete avatars in blender its driving me batty. I am presently creating a chicken but i am forced to try to animate this thing inside milkshape. All this for a 15 minute movie for a grimm fairy tale /shrug

Anyhow thanks for the resonpse but of course from where I sit I keep hoping that you guys will find the time to create a cal exporter that works with blender that is moviestorm friendly

*edit* to many lol's

[writerly]

I build in Sketchup and then port it over to Milkshape for export to Moviestorm. It isn't the world's smoothest workflow, but it does work and is reliable. And yes, Milkshape has quirks, and the exporter puts UVs out which need to be flipped vertically, but that's pretty simple to accomplish.
A one button solution would be nice, but there are many other things I would rather the MS people worked on than that.
My two cents...
C

[corthew]

A one button solution would be nice, but there are many other things I would rather the MS people worked on than that.

100% agree. two or more weeks spent on this for them would mean two or more weeks not working on the stuff we can't as easily work around, like a lack of children or the head and foot-held prop dilemma.