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New body types in the future?


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#21 primaveranz

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:11 AM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Dec 2 2011, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think skeleton has much to do with body shapes


Yeah, I really meant "body heights" as it is the most noticeable visual difference between most kids and most adults. I asked a while back if they could run a batch script to change the settings for existing animations to suit a different height. Ben said it could be done but required just about as much work to tidy up.
But the whole "children" question has been debated for several years now, so I guess it will happen if it happens. Otherwise it won't wink.gif

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#22 GuitarHag

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:20 PM

Different body types such as Fat and skinny.
All people are not skinny.
Be able tomorph someones tush or breast big or small or have a Bubba Belly.

And I think the clothes should be universal have the option to pick or choose from men or womens line.

Need Scarfs and bandanas.

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#23 jimthehermit

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:11 PM

Just had an idea

How about a male the size of females and a female the size of males? That way all the animations would still work and we have some variety.

#24 corthew

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (jimthehermit @ Dec 18 2011, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just had an idea

How about a male the size of females and a female the size of males? That way all the animations would still work and we have some variety.



It has been suggested before. Maybe they'll see it this time.smile.gif

The smaller person will still be desired of course. We don't want them to delay that change any longer than necessary.

But there are tall women and short men and teens that look mom in the eyes.smile.gif

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Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#25 willshetterly

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:47 PM

QUOTE (jimthehermit @ Dec 18 2011, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about a male the size of females and a female the size of males? That way all the animations would still work and we have some variety.


The objection was that the walk for the sexes is different. But I think that would be tolerable with different body types.

#26 Chris Ollis

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (willshetterly @ Dec 18 2011, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The objection was that the walk for the sexes is different. But I think that would be tolerable with different body types.


Aside from the sexy or blokey walk being applied to the opposite sex, the bigger problem is having the time to convert every single character we've made to the other skeleton which would involve a lot of careful resizing and vertex adjustment as well as the mind numbingly slow process of duplicating neck seams that work.
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#27 corthew

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:55 PM

QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Dec 18 2011, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Aside from the sexy or blokey walk being applied to the opposite sex, the bigger problem is having the time to convert every single character we've made to the other skeleton which would involve a lot of careful resizing and vertex adjustment as well as the mind numbingly slow process of duplicating neck seams that work.



What he's suggesting is making male skins for the female skeleton and female skins for the male.

It wouldn't require anything more than new skins.

The animations are already there.smile.gif
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#28 Chris Ollis

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (corthew @ Dec 18 2011, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What he's suggesting is making male skins for the female skeleton and female skins for the male.

It wouldn't require anything more than new skins.

The animations are already there.smile.gif



That's what I described. On average each costume would take half a day without other interruptions to resize and reskin. I can't remember how many costume variants we have, its either 100 total or 100 each I think, so that's possibly 100 days non stop working on creating costumes resized to the other skeleton.
I think its safe to assume that Amos has a little too much on his plate to consider such a massive undertaking.
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#29 corthew

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Dec 18 2011, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's what I described. On average each costume would take half a day without other interruptions to resize and reskin. I can't remember how many costume variants we have, its either 100 total or 100 each I think, so that's possibly 100 days non stop working on creating costumes resized to the other skeleton.
I think its safe to assume that Amos has a little too much on his plate to consider such a massive undertaking.



I'm not complaining. What you guys have done, especially with the terrain editor, is amazing.

But new bodies are made...fashion packs, monster packs. How much harder than that would it be to leave breasts off of a female or add them to a male?

Of course as I think of it, it would become more involved quickly. You'd have facial hair that is currently only available for male models. But it would at least add more family planning options. And what of the bearded lady or the androgynous male? smile.gif

Its being suggested only as a short term solution for different sized people.

Easier than making an entire new skeleton based character set isn't it?

Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#30 Chris Ollis

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:43 AM

QUOTE (corthew @ Dec 18 2011, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But new bodies are made...fashion packs, monster packs. How much harder than that would it be to leave breasts off of a female or add them to a male?
Of course as I think of it, it would become more involved quickly. You'd have facial hair that is currently only available for male models.


No offence, but you clearly aren't quite aware of what goes in to making each character work, and my half asleep state last night showed that I was forgetting stuff.

As I said, resizing one body would take half a day. But hich costume from the catalogue would you want that to be? It's pretty certain that it wouldn't be the one someone else was after, so an initial pack would require a fairly wide selection of costumes.

But that's just a body. You would need to do the heads first. Reskinning the heads to make correct use of the facial bones of the opposite gender is quite an undertaking in itself.
As well as the head you would need to re-export all of the face morphs so you can have variety in your characters, that's already close to 100 new head models per gender you are asking to be made.
Then I assume you wouldn't want the character to only be bald, so you'd need to resize all of the hair that's been made, then you get on to the crossover of facial hair, makeup, etc, and of course you'd need to rewrite the interface a bit so that it can all fit in.

I really wouldn't hold your breath for this, Amos is far, far too busy to tackle such a mountain.


In comparison, making a monster that doesn't rely on so many other assets or user expectations is a 5 minute walk in the park.
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#31 corthew

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Dec 19 2011, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I said, resizing one body would take half a day. But hich costume from the catalogue would you want that to be? It's pretty certain that it wouldn't be the one someone else was after, so an initial pack would require a fairly wide selection of costumes.



Damn it. wink.gif

So it might actually be easier to make a smaller version of the male and the female characters than to make a crossover?


Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#32 corthew

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:46 AM

I'm guessing that simply applying existing male skins, body, head, hair, to the female skeleton would not work?

I ask this because the one single boned puppet I ever programmed around, upon which I base my countless days of experience in this laugh.gif , was directly scale-able. If I shrunk the skeleton the mesh shrunk with it.

Much like what I've heard happened when MS was in its infancy and characters on scale-able meshes would scale with it.

So I'm guessing the skeletons are too different to simply rename the meshes to make them available to the opposite gender.

As to the scaling down of existing skeletons with their associated meshes, I understand interactions would need to be completely redone for the smaller size relationships which was why we were thinking initially that a simple copying and renaming of meshes to the opposite gender skeleton might be easier for now.

Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#33 Harb40

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 06:02 PM

Here is a thought that might fit into this discussion. Since the talk has been for different sizes of characters, what about the interaction menu options being updated for more precise interactions? What I mean by this is, let's start with the 'look at' command. What if a second menu were to pop up asking where to look when used on another puppet? Say they were 4 options: look at head/face, at chest, at groin and at feet. This would give us a bit more control on where the characters eyes point. Right now, if you want one character to look at the feet of another, you have to put a prop next to the feet and make it invisible and then tell the puppet to look at the prop.

By giving the additional commands, it would open up a myriad of options for us to play with and could provide for some comedy scenes or 'leacherous' thoughts. By adding something to the skeletal code, it wouldn't matter if the character was the size of a child, an adult or a giant, the head/eyes of the character using the 'look at' command would automatically be able to readjust it's angle to that spot.
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