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#1 Christos

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 03:26 AM

Bare with me, just a couple of quick questions:

1) If I was to put images of, say, band logos on posters, put them in my set, and create and upload the movie, would that be infringing on copyright? (Is copyright even the right word for this?) Obviously it's hard to get permission for these type of things, but I would definitely NOT be out to gain any profit out of it.

2) What about music? Are you able to just grab your favourite song without permission and put it in your movie? Or does it all have to be original/or original from someone else, granted there are credits?

Am I allowed to do these things and upload movies without any troubles?

#2 matt

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 07:55 AM

QUOTE (Christos @ Jun 4 2009, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bare with me, just a couple of quick questions:

1) If I was to put images of, say, band logos on posters, put them in my set, and create and upload the movie, would that be infringing on copyright? (Is copyright even the right word for this?) Obviously it's hard to get permission for these type of things, but I would definitely NOT be out to gain any profit out of it.

2) What about music? Are you able to just grab your favourite song without permission and put it in your movie? Or does it all have to be original/or original from someone else, granted there are credits?

Am I allowed to do these things and upload movies without any troubles?


This is an unofficial answer from me. It's not Moviestorm policy.

I'm afraid this is a really thorny issue, to which there are no definitive answers.

First of all, it depends on which country's laws are being applied. They're all different. That could include your country, the country the band comes from, the country the band's record label is based in, the country our servers are based in, or the country the video is being viewed in. The Internet just ain't ready to cope with global content distribution and national laws. So what's legal where you are may not be legal somewhere else, and although you think you're abiding by the law, you can get sued somewhere else.

Next, it may depend on what's called "fair use". Some countries have a fair use provision, some don't. In other words if you're using the logo or music in specific ways (e.g. for parody or satire), this may be acceptable. Defining what is and what is not fair use is something that gives lawyers nightmares. (Actually, no, it doesn't. It makes lawyers very rich, like most copyright legislation.) And, of course, satire is something that may annoy the band more than a homage, and make them more likely to take action against you.

The issue of whether you're making money out of it is not always relevant. What is usually more relevant is whether what you're doing is depriving the legitimate rights holder of money.

You also need to be careful of trademark legislation, which isn't the same as copyright. A band logo may be a trademark, in which case a whole different set of laws apply. A trademark indicates that something is "official" and you can get really hammered if your use of a trademark makes something look like it's approved by the band.

It mostly depends on the record company. If they object to what you're doing, they may decide to jump on you. Or they may see fan-made things as beneficial - some are quite happy for it. Or, more likely, they'll never find out - and if they do, they probably won't consider it worthwhile taking action against you. In practice. if they object, the first thing they will do is issue a take-down notice, and ask you to remove your film. (Oh, and due to more weirdness of national laws, bands may have different record companies in different countries, and one might think what you're doing is fine, while others might object. Sigh.) Some record companies are far, far more aggressive than others, and will issue take-down notices against YouTube videos of 10-year olds singing karaoke versions of "their" songs at birthday parties, which, frankly, I find not just sickening, but stupid.

Copyright law is in a mess. If I film a crowd at a gig I wouldn't expect to set sued by bands or designers for having extras in my film who are wearing their logo on their shirts, so in all honesty, I don't see what's wrong with including them in an animated movie. I guess the argument could be that in a film, all the people actually bought shirts, so the bands & shirt manufacturers actually made money, but if you just rip an image off the Web and put it on a virtual shirt, they don't. On the other hand, music is something it's generally accepted you can't just include without permission. When the BBC were filming at my school, they had to find out who wrote the hymn the choir were singing in the background, just in case they needed clearance. (It was a 500 year old bit of plainsong, and it was on-screen for maybe 3 seconds, but they felt they had to be careful anyway.)

OK, so the long and the short of it is this. The lawyers can't agree on what the law is, so us amateurs haven't a hope.

If you want to be 100% safe, then always use original music (or music with a creative commons or similar license), and never include band logos or anything else in your movie. On the other hand, ask yourself whether you feel what you're doing is reasonable, and whether you feel that what you're doing constitutes fair use. Personally, and I repeat, PERSONALLY, I'd feel quite happy putting band logos on posters, since I'd treat this as legitimate set dressing, but less comfortable using their music. That's not a comment on what's legal, that's just my personal view on what I would regard as reasonable and unlikely to land me in court. On the other hand, I apply much stricter standards to movies put out by the company.

It's your call.

There is of course a third option - write to the band and ask their permission. You may be pleasantly surprised, as RAF Blackace and others have found out! (This is, of course, far more likely to work with small bands who love their fans than with mega-bands.)
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#3 iceaxe

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:45 AM

...and if you're looking for a great source of creative commons music, I recommend Jamendo.com. It's got a good tag-based search, and a huge variety of high quality music. You do need to check the licence for any particular piece that you want to use there, and it never hurts to simply ask the artist.

#4 Guest_yolise_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:58 AM

Matt was, of course, careful to point out that this is not official MS policy but I think there's a ton of useful advice there, so I'm going to sticky this!

#5 Poulet Noir

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE (iceaxe @ Jun 4 2009, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...and if you're looking for a great source of creative commons music, I recommend Jamendo.com... ...You do need to check the licence for any particular piece that you want to use there, and it never hurts to simply ask the artist.

Perhaps you know the answer to this, Iceaxe: I wanted to contact the Fabio Keiner when I used one of his tracks on Incarcerated, but I couldn't see how to contact him on the Jamendo site. Was that because I was just browsing, or are contact details only included at the discretion of the artists?

Thanks,

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#6 Christos

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 01:32 PM

Thanks for the very informative reply. It was important I asked this question because my cousin and I are working on a movie idea that is actually based on an entire song: City Hall by Tenacious D, and will take on a comedic approach. Now this takes this copyright issue up another level I guess. Not only will the song be featured throughout the movie, but the movie will be based on the song. So before going too far ahead with the idea (script is written and one set is completed), I figured I better get some answers in regards to this situation first (forgot to ask sooner).

As far as band logo graphics appearing in sets, it's basically a select few bands that we enjoy that we have stuck on the wall of the 'house set' that appears in the movie. We just thought it would be a fun way to personalise the movie a bit and in no way is out to make the bands look bad at all, but I can see why is can be an issue as explained.

So basically the whole movie idea is treading on thin ice by the sounds of it. However, if the only risk I knew I was facing (and very well could be anyway) was being told to take down the movie, then I'd go ahead and make the movie. But now, I'm undecided. We could make the movie just for our enjoyment and not upload it at all, but one of the great rewards at the end of it all is reading the reactions of other people.

#7 iceaxe

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Poulet Noir @ Jun 4 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Perhaps you know the answer to this, Iceaxe: I wanted to contact the Fabio Keiner when I used one of his tracks on Incarcerated, but I couldn't see how to contact him on the Jamendo site. Was that because I was just browsing, or are contact details only included at the discretion of the artists?

Thanks,

PN


Hmmm. I usually add an artist as a friend, then once they have accepted you can PM them. However, I don't see a way to add Fabio. Maybe he's just not very friendly.
I guess you could leave a comment and ask him to PM you? It certainly seems to be at the artist's discretion.

#8 Poulet Noir

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE (iceaxe @ Jun 5 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmmm. I usually add an artist as a friend, then once they have accepted you can PM them. However, I don't see a way to add Fabio. Maybe he's just not very friendly.
I guess you could leave a comment and ask him to PM you? It certainly seems to be at the artist's discretion.

Great idea to leave a comment - I can include a link to the movie - it might generate more interest in Moviestorm wink.gif

Thanks, IceAxe

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#9 keithlawrence

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (Christos @ Jun 4 2009, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2) What about music? Are you able to just grab your favourite song without permission and put it in your movie? Or does it all have to be original/or original from someone else, granted there are credits?

Am I allowed to do these things and upload movies without any troubles?


A good question!

QUOTE (matt @ Jun 4 2009, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is an unofficial answer from me. It's not Moviestorm policy.

(-alot of text-)

It's your call.


Has the question been answerd or is there no official answer to this question?
Is it up to me and the laws in my country?

Here is a follow-up: In my country it´s easy to look up and ask the artist through a company. It´s easy! Is there an easy way to get in touch with brittish and american artists as well?


#10 Armanus

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:47 PM

Often if you're friends with them on Myspace or a fan of their official Facebook page, the person who is operating the page is under the employ of the artist's agency or label. Contacting them with a request may work, provided the have the ability to pass it on to the right person and they do so.

Keep in mind though it's easier with independent artists. Recording artists who are under a major label usually don't have licensing control of their music, and it has to be gained from the label. Never hurts to ask though.

#11 keithlawrence

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 09:02 PM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Jun 3 2010, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Often if you're friends with them on Myspace or a fan of their official Facebook page, the person who is operating the page is under the employ of the artist's agency or label. Contacting them with a request may work, provided the have the ability to pass it on to the right person and they do so.

Keep in mind though it's easier with independent artists. Recording artists who are under a major label usually don't have licensing control of their music, and it has to be gained from the label. Never hurts to ask though.


Great. Thanks!

#12 MikeLyons

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 09:49 PM

Here's an idea that came to me and I might even try it myself at some point:

I use a program called Sony ACID to make my own music using royalty-free loops. In the process of using it, I joined the web site www.acidplanet.com which allows users to feature their own music creations.

Perhaps you might check out some of the original and independent tracks being created there, and when you find one you like, contact the artist directly through the web site and ask if they might like to enter into an arrangement with you:

You feature their music (giving credit at the end, of course) in exchange for their express permission to use the music in your film. This benefits you by giving you your soundtrack, and benefits them by giving them some free exposure.

Mike

#13 dpickett

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:57 PM

Just wanted to add to what MikeLyons just said. There are plenty of people around who are more than willing to help out when it comes to music; I'm taking on extra projects at the moment and if you have a Mac then the sounds that come with Garageband are free to use commercially as long as you don't sell them as samples.

Always best to be safe so asking is always best policy.
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#14 ungasis10

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 03:39 PM

i have a problem in my created movie.how can i erase the link "www.moviestorm.net" in my created movie?
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#15 andy_price

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:23 PM

just a little more to think about......

when I use to make real life videos, weddings etc...

if I was filming in a location that had a poster of a band that had been put on a wall, then that is not breach of copyright... example... I am filming in at a wedding disco, and in the video, there is someone pouring a can of coke a cola into a glass, I would not be in breach of copyright, example 2 if at the same disco the DJ was playing the latest robbie williams song and i just happened to catch it on the video, again, no breach of copyright. however, if I set a scene of a guy pouring a glass of coke a cola, and added a backing track of the latest robbie williams song, that would defiantly be a breach of copyright.

dont know how this helps as far as machinima goes



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#16 jimthehermit

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:42 PM

I got question about another copyright area. I'm making a horror B-movie using the voices from the characters in several old video games. I love combining material from several sources and making something new out of it.

I know they are copyrighted, but if the actors were paid already and I'm not making money from it and only a few hundred people in the world will ever see it, then what's the harm?

#17 primaveranz

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (jimthehermit @ Oct 29 2011, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... then what's the harm?


It's not us you have to ask though wink.gif

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#18 Armanus

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (jimthehermit @ Oct 28 2011, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I got question about another copyright area. I'm making a horror B-movie using the voices from the characters in several old video games. I love combining material from several sources and making something new out of it.

I know they are copyrighted, but if the actors were paid already and I'm not making money from it and only a few hundred people in the world will ever see it, then what's the harm?


From a legal point of view, the harm is that the lines are from a copyrighted game, and likely from a copyrighted script, so you would be violating those copyrights. Unless there was some weird non-standard contractual agreement between the voice actor and game developer, the actor doesn't retain any rights to the lines they recorded, even though it is the actor's voice. The rights rest solely with the developer.

That said though, chances are the video might not be seen by the "right" people to create an issue for you, and if that were to happen they would probably have the site hosting it (like YouTube) take it down, or send you a cease and desist letter. But you never know, they might want to make an example of you wink.gif


#19 jimthehermit

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:24 AM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Oct 28 2011, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...and if that were to happen they would probably have the site hosting it (like YouTube) take it down, or send you a cease and desist letter. But you never know, they might want to make an example of you wink.gif


the movie's comming out better than I thought it would, so I'm going to hafta try.


#20 jimthehermit

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 03:55 AM

QUOTE (jimthehermit @ Oct 29 2011, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the movie's comming out better than I thought it would, so I'm going to hafta try.



BTW -it's finished:

http://www.moviestor...p;vid_id=107683

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