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MS - Release Skeleton Schematics!


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Poll: Open Skeleton Schematics (83 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you create character mods if you could?

  1. Yes, and I'd sell them (13 votes [15.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.66%

  2. Yes, and I'd give them away (24 votes [28.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.92%

  3. Yes, for my private use (14 votes [16.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.87%

  4. Maybe. At least I might give it a go. (29 votes [34.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.94%

  5. No. (3 votes [3.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.61%

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#41 lucindamc123

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:03 AM

I think if we can work together as a group it would be a real benefit to all of us and to Moviestorm but this I hope will be available to all users who would like to try this new product. It isn't a competition and everyone has something they can offer to this film making community that will benefit all of us, just like those who have learned to make mods and use the Modder's Workshop have contributed so much to all of us.

#42 Armanus

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:37 AM

I think the idea of a mod team is a great first step. This team could actually do a lot in helping document everything, as well filling some gaps in demand. This would also be an opportunity for MS to see how things could work out with this.

But I think it's only a first step at best. There is still going to be the issue of demand. Even with a mod team, only so much is going to be able to get done. Eventually turning this information over to the public is going to be necessary, and IMO is the best option, both for the community and for your business.

I get your being cautious, and I think forming a mod team is a good place to start.

#43 lucindamc123

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Mar 21 2010, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the idea of a mod team is a great first step. This team could actually do a lot in helping document everything, as well filling some gaps in demand. This would also be an opportunity for MS to see how things could work out with this.

But I think it's only a first step at best. There is still going to be the issue of demand. Even with a mod team, only so much is going to be able to get done. Eventually turning this information over to the public is going to be necessary, and IMO is the best option, both for the community and for your business.

I get your being cautious, and I think forming a mod team is a good place to start.



Yes I can see the staff here wanting to have more experienced modders and animators play with this funcition first. With this program since you are changing a lot of things that affect the program, you could crash your program and for people not experienced, that would mean tons of people asking for help or complaining. What I always do if I do something like change one of their texture files (I have been messing around with the faces for a bit now) I save the original of the DDS file under a different name so I can get it back if I mess up too much. Same with anything else I have attempted to change in the program. And for me having the skeletan information and the meshes for the puppets would make it possible to change the structure of the face. There is no problem with changing the DDS texture files at all but if the structure is not changed, you can't get a really different looking or custom face.

#44 Moviestorm

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:07 PM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Mar 21 2010, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the idea of a mod team is a great first step. This team could actually do a lot in helping document everything, as well filling some gaps in demand. This would also be an opportunity for MS to see how things could work out with this.

But I think it's only a first step at best. There is still going to be the issue of demand. Even with a mod team, only so much is going to be able to get done. Eventually turning this information over to the public is going to be necessary, and IMO is the best option, both for the community and for your business.

I get your being cautious, and I think forming a mod team is a good place to start.


Absolutely. It's a first step while we iron out bugs in documentation, find out what the problems are with working on different hardware/software setups, and sort out the best way to get people up to speed if they've never done this before.
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#45 EugeneE

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:48 AM

I voted yes - and I would give them away.

I like the idea of a mod team. If a mod team happens, this will be a step in the right direction.

#46 alteregotrip

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 09:18 AM

I feel that the creation of customised characters would be a great boon to Moviestorm since the people who already use this program will find more incentive in subscribing with more options available.

Personally, I would like to see the ability to create customised characters to be more like those options of Second Life, where one can use a shape, and then create a "skin" (within reasonable contexts) and even modifications on hair, eyes and clothing. With so many of these animations and set options available it only makes sense to have a bit more freedom for creation of fatter and thinner, shorter and taller characters.

None the less I have yet to explore the options of Moviestorm more completely. I really enjoy this program, its very cool, flexible and has lots and lots of possibilities and strengths. cool.gif
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#47 isee

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 12:13 AM

yes, i would be able to produce better footage, customer film to include the face of my voice actor to give it a personal touch.

#48 isee

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 12:13 AM

yes, i would be able to produce better footage, customer film to include the face of my voice actor to give it a personal touch.

#49 Overman

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:19 AM

Goes without saying, but I would make use of the skeleton and other info to make content. I would also seek out other experienced 3D artists and hire them to do so too.

Look at the absolutely massive amount of content - most of it made available for free - which cropped up from amateurs around The Sims 2.

It takes skills and certain tools to make content for any of these platforms. iClone is no different, and look at how many users are making content there. The Sims 2, as I said. Second Life, the variety is stunning.

The fact that lower quality content appears in all of these engines is neither a surprise nor a detriment to the products. Content creators are learning as they go, it's only expected that some of what they make is not "pro" quality. But some of them get really really good.

Personally, I'd like to have the chance to be allowed to suck, just like the pros all did at one point. It's the only way I'll get any good.

In answer to the need for documentation - yes, that would be nice. But unsupported/undocumented tools have NEVER stopped game modders from figuring stuff out and getting it done. There's no reason why Moviestorm has to wait to deliver a fully documented package... unless of course they intend to sell it, in which case count me in. But if it's just something they're going to make freely available, don't waste too much time writing a "for dummies" book for it all. The modders will pool info and make headway, and when the body of knowledge gains cohesion it will be published. That's just the way these things work naturally, in my observation.
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#50 lucindamc123

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 11:36 AM

There are thousands of mods and props made by Moviestorm modders that have been released for free. I have made hundreds myself including Manhattan and Washington DC (area around the Whitehouse and across the park). There are many people capable here of learning how to do this.

#51 wizaerd

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 05:03 PM

While this would be a great boon to modders, it might not be as good for the users... We'd have to make a request of the modders, and it may or may not be done. I think releasing an addon app that allows users to do their own animations and character customizations would be far more advantageous to the users. I dont know about anybody else, but buying expensive 3rd party modeling applications isn't in my budget...

#52 Armanus

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 05:44 PM

Mine either, but Blender is free, which fits in anyone's budget wink.gif

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#53 daleh

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 10:07 PM

Well I voted for Maybe

The reason being I doubt I would have the skills to create complex models and animate them, I can at best create simple sketchup models.

Its something I'd love to see MS get though for those who do have the skills, as more content can only be a good thing

#54 wizaerd

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Mar 27 2010, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mine either, but Blender is free, which fits in anyone's budget wink.gif

http://www.blender.org


I've tried to use Blender several different times, and just could never get my head around it... It's not just the 3D application tho, one also needs patience (of which I have none), modeling skill (of which I have none), time (of which I practically have none)...

No, I don't want to be a 3d artists, but I would like to decide how my actors should look, what they should wear, and most importantly deicde how they should behave in my movies... I'm still hoping and/or waiting for an official add on that allows us to do this in/from MoveStorm...

#55 Armanus

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:27 AM

That would be nice smile.gif

#56 lucindamc123

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:15 AM

QUOTE (wizaerd @ Mar 29 2010, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've tried to use Blender several different times, and just could never get my head around it... It's not just the 3D application tho, one also needs patience (of which I have none), modeling skill (of which I have none), time (of which I practically have none)...

No, I don't want to be a 3d artists, but I would like to decide how my actors should look, what they should wear, and most importantly deicde how they should behave in my movies... I'm still hoping and/or waiting for an official add on that allows us to do this in/from MoveStorm...


With the way Moviestorm is written, there is no easy way to make your own mods from Moviestorm assets.. However, it is easy to import models from Sketchup which is easy to use. As far as character customization, I do not think that costume customization and character modeling will be as difficult as making 3d models. I don't think you will need to create a 3d animated character from scratch. I have experimented with face customization which is a matter of changing the look of the facial texture. The problem with Moviestorm is that we have no way to change the mesh as we don't have access to the mesh. And the mesh is what makes the body and face the shape it is. So you can change a facial texture all you want but if the mesh is the same it won't look very different. When we do have access to the mesh, it won't be that difficult to do.

I am sure after they have tested this will experienced Moviestorm users that an easier version will be available to everyone who is a subscriber.

Another thing that they could do that would be available to everyone is to make many more simple props and make those props scalable in every dimension, x,y and z and not lock the x,y and z modes.


#57 AngriBuddhist

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 05:48 AM

There have been a few posts in this thread that are slightly off the mark. All I'm trying to do here is make sure that no one gets the wrong impression about what may or may not actually be happening.

1. This topic has just come up. Even if MS decided to release the information that modders would need to make costumes and animations and they then got started prepping that information into documentation, it wouldn't be for quite a while before that was publicly accessible. The developers are nowhere near making such a decision and have other things on their plate right now (Face Morpher, Shadows, 1.3, 3D). I don't have any inside info but I can't imagine this documentation being available any sooner than 6 months from now, probably longer.

2. There would be no software released to aid us in this. All it would be is a ton of text documentation, that would likely need certain knowledge to understand, that would allow us to know how Moviestorm characters are built and animated. We would have to use software such as 3DMax or Blender, build our content, and hammer it into MS.

3. If you are not a 3D artist, this won't be easy unless you start learning now. If you are getting the impression that the documentation is going to turn you into a Character Creating Ninja, think again. It'll probably turn most of us into sobbing imbeciles.

#58 lucindamc123

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE (AngriBuddhist @ Mar 30 2010, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There have been a few posts in this thread that are slightly off the mark. All I'm trying to do here is make sure that no one gets the wrong impression about what may or may not actually be happening.

1. This topic has just come up. Even if MS decided to release the information that modders would need to make costumes and animations and they then got started prepping that information into documentation, it wouldn't be for quite a while before that was publicly accessible. The developers are nowhere near making such a decision and have other things on their plate right now (Face Morpher, Shadows, 1.3, 3D). I don't have any inside info but I can't imagine this documentation being available any sooner than 6 months from now, probably longer.

2. There would be no software released to aid us in this. All it would be is a ton of text documentation, that would likely need certain knowledge to understand, that would allow us to know how Moviestorm characters are built and animated. We would have to use software such as 3DMax or Blender, build our content, and hammer it into MS.

3. If you are not a 3D artist, this won't be easy unless you start learning now. If you are getting the impression that the documentation is going to turn you into a Character Creating Ninja, think again. It'll probably turn most of us into sobbing imbeciles.


I do not think modding the costumes and faces will be that difficult and as I said before we just lack the meshes. Since the characters and costumes are already created, it is not that difficult to change the size and shape of a mesh. Now I do not know how their animation works and I don't know how difficult it will be to use. However, they do use 3ds Max and actually animation in 3ds Max is not that hard to do. Character modeling is tricky but you can also purchase already made characters and a lot of them come with the program.

It is going to depend upon how they import the animation into Moviestorm. Now most people don't have 3ds Max however, the non-pro edition is not that expensive.

The most difficult thing I have found in Moviestorm as far as making custom costumes is not the creation of the texture but figuring out how to name the folders and files so you don't mess up your existing files. But that will just take time in reading the wiki about it and applying what i have learned. I have not had time lately to do this.


#59 Armanus

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:21 PM

Modding costumes and faces would be somewhat difficult because they are all essentially meshes, so at the very least you will need to understand how meshes are constructed and how to modify them. I believe that each costume is it's own body mesh, so custom costumes will have to be custom meshes as well. I'm sure there will be some form of template to use to conform to body shape (for consistency) but it will require it's own mesh.

QUOTE (AngriBuddhist @ Mar 29 2010, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2. There would be no software released to aid us in this. All it would be is a ton of text documentation, that would likely need certain knowledge to understand, that would allow us to know how Moviestorm characters are built and animated. We would have to use software such as 3DMax or Blender, build our content, and hammer it into MS.


I'd think there would be a new build of the workshop in order to import these things (unless that functionality already exists?), but other then that I don't expect MS to create new software. It would be nice of course, but I'd rather they work on the current product smile.gif


#60 lucindamc123

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Mar 30 2010, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Modding costumes and faces would be somewhat difficult because they are all essentially meshes, so at the very least you will need to understand how meshes are constructed and how to modify them. I believe that each costume is it's own body mesh, so custom costumes will have to be custom meshes as well. I'm sure there will be some form of template to use to conform to body shape (for consistency) but it will require it's own mesh.



I'd think there would be a new build of the workshop in order to import these things (unless that functionality already exists?), but other then that I don't expect MS to create new software. It would be nice of course, but I'd rather they work on the current product smile.gif



The costumes and the bodies are one as far as a mesh is concerned from what i can tell. If they were individual meshes it would be easier to mod them. If we had access to the meshes, I don't think it would be that difficult to change them, however, they have said that the animations correspond to the size and shape of the avatar so the animations might not work correctly. I know this is true with props, but whether it is true with avatar animation in general I do not know. I do know that the animation for a prop is actually tied to the avatar. The prop itself is not animated. The animation is controlled by the avatar and connected to the avatar.

Since the prop animations are actually avatar animations then I would expect size and shape of the avatar is going to effect the animation. With other programs props can have their own animations not tied to the avatar and avatars can also interact with props.

The way the program is written in Java may be why this would be difficult to do. However, the staff here manages to make it work and I think some of our experienced modders could make it work too.


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