Animating with Milkshape or Max?

[kv]

I have been tinkering with Milkshape to make animations for moviestorm, I admit it`s no easy task as milkshape makes it quite tedious when selecting joints to move/rotate, then there is the problem where it tends to deform joints and mesh just when you think things are going fine and try to make a more advanced animation.

I notice in a video of the skeleton in Max it looks so much more clear, and appears much more accessible.

My question is then is if it`s actually easier in max to animate than in milkshape, as yet I don`t know since I have not had an invite despite applying so I would love to test Max and see the difference.

Tax has greedily pinched more money than they should off me for a couple of years now and I am reclaiming it, Max is a possible purchase choice if it makes life easier than Milkshape.

[squirrelygirl]

Animating in Max isn't very difficult. I wouldn't try making a walk path or anything like that right now, but it's very similar to animating in Iclone. I know you've used that program. It's basically the same as the bone manipulation to create animations in Iclone. Hope that help!

[kv]

So can you just click on the joint and move/rotate it? Or is there an accessible drop list of the joints which can give you the choice to select several joints?

I know in milkshape you can select multi joints if you drag and highlight in the view screen but it is really clumsy.

I liked animating in iclone, it was pretty easy to see where you went wrong if there were any deforming so you could fix it, so if thats the case in Max then thats a good thing, milkshape makes it much less obvious and a lot of the time it seems to deform when it really shouldn`t have.

The other thing I like about Iclone is when you move a joint and the atached body parts move correctly with it (something else that does not happen in milkshape).

[luxaeternam]

Sorry, can't answer the poll.

I was a little unsure of my abilities in the field, so I haven't laid out much cash in the matter.

I'm using Misfit (free) and FragMotion (prayerware) in tandem and bit by bit gathering the knowledge required to follow Amos' tutorials successfully. It's so much easier than I thought, and I've made a lot of progress. So if there are any ladies who'd like a leg up (for once I'm playing that card - sorry, but we women are underrepresented) then please PM me. Guys are welcome to contact me too, but if you have a small business planned forget it - I do non-profit only.

[squirrelygirl]

So can you just click on the joint and move/rotate it? Or is there an accessible drop list of the joints which can give you the choice to select several joints?

I know in milkshape you can select multi joints if you drag and highlight in the view screen but it is really clumsy.

I liked animating in iclone, it was pretty easy to see where you went wrong if there were any deforming so you could fix it, so if thats the case in Max then thats a good thing, milkshape makes it much less obvious and a lot of the time it seems to deform when it really shouldn`t have.

The other thing I like about Iclone is when you move a joint and the atached body parts move correctly with it (something else that does not happen in milkshape).

There isn't a drop down list, or not that I've seen. I just started messing with the skeleton Sunday so there could be one and I just don't know how to access it. But to give you an idea...If I select the upper arm bone at the shoulder joint then it selects the whole upper arm bone then if I rotate it, it also rotates the lower arm and hand with it. Or I can select the lower arm at the elbow joint and move that part with the hand. You can also drag and highlight then hold down Control and click on bones that were selected that you didn't want as part of the section you want to rotate and/or move. I haven't used Milkshape so I really can't say if that's different. To me it just seems more like the process that Iclone uses so there wasn't a huge learning curve, which really helped.

[kv]

Sounds good.

Milkshape works similarly, you select the shoulder and it highlights all of the arm so when you rotate the shoulder it affets the arm too. But I noticed like a couple of time when I rotated the lower arm, and sometimes bent the elbow the hand went all freaky looking, as if I had managed to break all the bones in it.

Same is true when sometimes I would raise the arm, bend the elbow and end up seeing the mesh peel of the skeleton (never at this point imported into moviestorm to see if it cripples in there to, think I will though and see what happens).

This image below shows what I mean:



Notice the hand has deformed and the arm has gone a bit strange, and this is just from raising the left clavicle a bit and the upper arm using rotate. I see this a lot in Milkshape and it is what is holding me off doing most animations I would like to do.

[squirrelygirl]

I haven't had that happen in Max. Now, let me find some wood to knock on.

[Chris Ollis]

Max is without a doubt easier, but at close to 3 thousand pounds it should be.
It's a massive investment, and not one I would recommend if you are just using it for Modding.
I also wouldn't recommend you get a dodgy copy off Ebay or "educational" license if you are intending to sell any mods. Autodesk are quite efficient at stopping such things - plus it p***es off those of us who do do these things honestly

[lucindamc123]

Milkshape is pretty easy to use. I haven't used Max in a long time but it was not too difficult. But I got the Bible with the DVD for the latest version of Max but I just have not installed it yet on my new computer and you only get 30 days use of it before you have to purchase the program but it is fully functional. I think Maya is easier to use though but my copy of Maya is old and can't get it to work on my new computers.

[kv]

Max is without a doubt easier, but at close to 3 thousand pounds it should be.
It's a massive investment, and not one I would recommend if you are just using it for Modding.
I also wouldn't recommend you get a dodgy copy off Ebay or "educational" license if you are intending to sell any mods. Autodesk are quite efficient at stopping such things - plus it p***es off those of us who do do these things honestly

Sh*%, it`s really that much? You know I really should check on these things

What are your possible thoughts what could be happening in Milkshape in my screenshot? I know you don`t really use it, just thought I would ask in case.

I can`t help but think that it`s maybe resizing the bones somehow, which could explain whats happening.

[Reacher]

I can`t help but think that it`s maybe resizing the bones somehow, which could explain whats happening.

There is an unfortunate known issue with MilkShape that sometimes when doing rotates it suddenly starts scaling as well. When you notice it you need to undo, then exit animation mode and enter it again. That seems to fix it.

Or use Misfit Model, which can read ms3d files and write Cal3d files.

-- Reacher

[lucindamc123]

There is an unfortunate known issue with MilkShape that sometimes when doing rotates it suddenly starts scaling as well. When you notice it you need to undo, then exit animation mode and enter it again. That seems to fix it.

Or use Misfit Model, which can read ms3d files and write Cal3d files.

-- Reacher

I don't have any problems with Milkshape when rotating. Perhaps he is not getting the vertices assigned correctly or may be missing assigning some vertices.

[Nahton]

I haven't tried this but out as of yet but I stumbled on it the other day and I thought I'd share.

GMax

Here's a blurb from Wikipedia

Gmax is a 3D modeling application based on Discreet's 3ds Max application used by professional computer graphics artists. Whereas 3ds Max is a comprehensive modeling, animation, and rendering package with some secondary post-production and compositing features, Gmax is much more limited due to its singular intended use—game content creation. Tools and features rarely used or completely unrelated to creating 3D game models were removed (most if not all of the more complex rendering, materials, shaders, physics simulation, and some of the more advanced geometry tools, plus the rendering engine), leaving the core modeling, texturing, and basic animation rigging and keyframing capabilities. In 2005, the software was discontinued.

As of October 16, 2005 AutoDesk Media and Entertainment has discontinued and no longer supports Gmax. Instead, the company has decided to focus on 3ds Max. However, the last version of Gmax is available for free to download from the official support website.

[kv]

Just grabbed that program, it does not support max format files only gmax, so unless someone ported the skeleton over to it it`s not much use to us, thanks anyway.

Edit: Looking at Gmax it looks like it could be good for animation since it has the tools required, however I can`t yet find a cal3d exporter for it (if one exists) and google searches look grim.

[Reacher]

Just grabbed that program, it does not support max format files only gmax, so unless someone ported the skeleton over to it it`s not much use to us, thanks anyway.

Edit: Looking at Gmax it looks like it could be good for animation since it has the tools required, however I can`t yet find a cal3d exporter for it (if one exists) and google searches look grim.

From what I remember about Gmax, their business model was 'free 3d program for modders'; 'game companies pay license to get an exporter'. So you will probably not find a cal3d exporter; however, you might find an exporter to something that Milkshape or Misfit can read, they support a number of game formats.

-- Reacher

[Stormscape]

Is there a reason nobody's using Blender?

It is by far the most powerful and versatile of the easily available programs; its completely free, open source actually, and widely supported, and has a sizable community of its own.

I would have thought it'd be the package of choice for modders, but I've hardly seen it even mentioned.

[kv]

Blender although free and powerful is also difficult to use, I couldn`t even get my head around the interface.

I know we have a couple of Blender users here, but like in my case I want to be able to do what I want to do without spending an age studying how to do simple things in a complicated program.

I am in no way criticising Blender as I know it is powerful in the hands of an experienced user, but it is to complex and to much work for me. Hopefully one day though it will be more user friendly.