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Moviestorm doesn't seem to work on HIGH Sierra!


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#1 JillBauer

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:13 PM

When Moviestorm is launched after the High Sierra update, it requests again the Legacy Java install, and then, when launched, it starts the "Checking Hardware" dialog, and the dialog stays there, blank, and nothing happens... 



#2 jamoram62

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

I don't know too much about Macs and Moviestorm version for MacOS, but, at least in Windows, MS comes with its own Java Runtime Environment (JRE) included.

AFAIK, High Sierra does still support 32-bit applications, such as MS. Now, I wonder if your system has installed a 64 bit version of the JRE and, for some reason, MS is trying to use it when launched, instead of its own -or other 32 bit JRE in your system.

I can't tell you where they could be found in a MacOS machine, but I'd try to locate your MS' user data folder (*), get the log files there, including the hardware report file, and attach them in a post for analyzing them.

 

 

(*) I think it's a folder named Moviestorm, located inside your home folder. You should find there a few files of potential value, such as:

    boot.log

    hardware-report.html

    hardware-report-summary.html

    log.txt

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#3 JillBauer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:02 PM

Thx for replying- I've attached the files u mention- but it looks like (BOOT) it doesn't really get very far- the NVIDIA cg toolkit is legacy, and tho i reinstalled it hasn't helped- nor a reinstall of the legacy java for apple. Any advice?

Attached Files



#4 jamoram62

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 05:39 PM

Hmm

 

By chance, has Moviestorm managed to boot at all any time before, showing up the main menu window -I mean, that with the "New movie", "Load movie", "Settings" options?

 

There's something that has attracted my atention when looking at the hardware report:

 

 

System Info
Processor:     8x i386
Operating System:     Mac OS X
Java Version:     20.65-b04-468
Locale:     US

Graphics Support
OpenGL vendor:     ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL version:     2.1 ATI-1.51.8
OpenGL renderer:     ATI Radeon R9 M295X OpenGL Engine
Supports VBOs:     true
Supports FBOs:     8
Max texture size:     16384
Cg shader version:     3.0.0005

 

 

At this moment, I'm not completely sure whether these specifications (OpenGL version) fit the minimum requirements. Have to check them.

 

 

As for the log report, it goes like this:

 

 

Time to initial setup: 0.0021
Processing arg -modders_workshop
Moviestorm 1.7.1 release 31028, 07/09/15
Operating system: Mac OS X 10.12.6 i386
JVM version: Apple Inc. 20.65-b04-468

....


OpenGL max verts=1048575 max indices=150000
Cg Version = 3.0.0005
Cg latest shader profiles: arbvp1, arbfp1
Time to init GL: 0.4560

...

Time to load AddOns: 0.36
Time to build file list: 1.4692
Time to load puppet factory: 0.0465
Time to load prop factory: 1.0806
Time to build asset explorer: 0.6375
ShadowCaster: using 2048 x 2048 shadow buffer

 

 

Apparently it uses a Java runtime other than that bundled with Moviestorm, but I'm not sure whether this is ok for MS running on macOS - anybody out there with an Apple machine, will be so kind to check this?

 

Hmm, you were trying to launch the Modder's Workshop, weren't you? It reports a lot of stock addons were loaded without a glitch, and the seems to stop, but this is normal if you've launched the Modder's Workshop and then exited. No clue or trace of anything going wrong in this report.

 

Would you please try to launch MS and entering the main menu, by clicking the "Start" button, try to create a new movie/load an existing one. Once MS exits, normally or as result of a crash, get again the log.txt file and please attach it to a new post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#5 JillBauer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 05:46 PM

hi, and thx for writing-

 

if u check, all the attached files (expect for boot), are older- they're all PRE High Sierra- i've never had any problem launching MovieStorm before- that's why these pre High Sierra files show no problems. I can't show you newer files since when i try to launch MovieStorm (simply clicking the icon, as i've always done, they don't get overwritten- I guess because Moviestorm stalls before it has a chance to write to file the new reports :-(

 



#6 jamoram62

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:29 PM

 I can't show you newer files since when i try to launch MovieStorm (simply clicking the icon, as i've always done, they don't get overwritten- I guess because Moviestorm stalls before it has a chance to write to file the new reports :-(

 

 

Sorry, I missed that. I see, it must be a really nasty bug.

 

Anyway, would you mind to attach or check by yourself the boot.log file?

 

In the first line of the boot.log file, it's stated the installation folder for Moviestorm. For example, in my own boot.log:

 

 

Moviestorm launcher starting C:\Program Files (x86)\Moviestorm\.\. Fri Sep 29 19:30:23 CEST 2017
Time to Kickoff: 1,06 (on thread Thread[AWT-EventQueue-0,6,main])
Time to MOTD begin: 1,06 (on thread Thread[pool-2-thread-1,5,main])
PatchStatuses are loaded
Time to Discovery begin: 1,06 (on thread Thread[Thread-2,6,main])
Time to Fetch Patches begin: 1,06 (on thread Thread[Thread-3,6,main])
Time to Updates begin: 1,06 (on thread Thread[pool-1-thread-1,5,main])
Getting patches from sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection:http://cloud.moviest...-patch-info.xml
Logged in as jamoram62
Time to Fetch Licenses begin: 1,13 (on thread Thread[Thread-5,6,main])
Time to Discovery end: 1,13 (on thread Thread[Thread-2,6,main])
Time to MOTD end: 1,28 (on thread Thread[AWT-EventQueue-0,6,main])
Time to Fetch Patches end: 1,75 (on thread Thread[Thread-3,6,main])
Failed to fetch messages from http://s3.moviestorm...s/messages.xml;loading from file instead
Time to Updates end: 1,87 (on thread Thread[pool-1-thread-1,5,main])
... blah blah blah...
License for ... (a number of third-party addons licenced)

 

If so, or should you know where Moviestorm is installed, please go to this folder and look for files with a name like this:

 

    hs_err_pid####.log

 

where #### is a number.

 

Please copy one of the most recent of these files and attach it to a post.  They are written when things have gone really bad.

 

 

PS: did you get the nVidia Cg toolkit from the link in the Moviestorm requirements page:

http://developer.dow...2.0_Jan2008.dmg

 

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#7 JillBauer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:47 PM

i wish i could- i checked and there are NO hs_err_pid files ANYWHERE on my iMac :-( 

My moviestorm is installed in Applications, which is the default install dir for apps on mac. The thing is, it worked perfectly on both my iMacs, and on my Mackbook Pro, until the High Sierra update- and now it works on none of the machines- so it MUST be some Java or Nvidia Cg toolkit problem with the new macOS, mustn't it?



#8 jamoram62

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:53 PM

Sorry, I added it as an afterthought: did you get the nVidia Cg toolkit from the link in the Moviestorm requirements page:

http://developer.dow...2.0_Jan2008.dmg

 

Well, it looks like we have a real killer here, I'm afraid.

 

If you haven't already done it, please submit a request in the official Support page. I'll try to reach Ben Sanders -he's the only person I think that can be of some real help with this issue.

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#9 JillBauer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:01 PM

i installed the LATEST nvidia cg toolkit (3.1, from 2010 or 2011) 

 

the last I heard from Ben was yesterday:

 

From: ben.sanders (Support staff)

Subject: moviestorm stalls completely after high sierra update

If it works, then you might be able to get Moviestorm working. If it doesn't work, then you probably can't.

 

WHICH is not really an answer AT ALL, since I bought Moviestorm like 6 months ago, and almost ALL the object adding- and now what? Moviestorm is dead to mac users with High Sierra? The problem is that Moviestorm is dependent on two LEGACY frameworks (java 6 and nvidia cg toolkit- a toolkit that nvidia has declared would not be updated any more like 5 years ago). What we need is an update to Moviestorm :-( This is really frustrating, and expensive :-(



#10 jamoram62

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

I fully concur: that's not answer at all.  Really upsetting :angry:

 

I don't know whether this can be done by an ordinary user or not (please excuse my ignorance: unfortunately I'm not familiar with the macOS environment):

 

Could you open a console/terminal window (don't know what's the terminology in that system), go to the Moviestorm folder and then launch the executable from this window by writing the name of the file?

 

On a Windows system it would be something like this:

 

Attached File  2017-09-29_211512.jpg   48.58KB   0 downloads

 

Please note that on a macOS system the name of the executable file not necessarily has to sport an .exe extension; I can't say for sure what could be its actual name.

 

The idea is trying to get some backup from what's so badly wrong at such an early stage of the app booting process. If only we got a clue, it would be a start.

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#11 JillBauer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:36 PM

yeah it's open -a Moviestorm on Terminal, but the result is the same- and the open command doesn't have a verbose argument, so... if only we knew how to FORCE Moviestorm to write some kind of log... but i'm sure Ben, or whoever programmed Moviestorm, and knows the Nvidia toolkit, etc, could figure out what the problem on High Sierra is :-((((



#12 jamoram62

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 11:20 AM

Tough luck! That's weird: absolutely no feedback from the crashing application ... :huh:

 

I think in macOS there's something called Console, more or less the equivalent of the Event Viewer in Windows Systems. Should you manage to launch it, maybe we could find some info registered there about the reason of Moviestorm crashing every time is launched...

 

I agree with you and my current hypothesis is, for whatever reason, Moviestorm is using the wrong Java Run Time, instead of that included with the app (well, at least in the Windows version one 1.6 JRE is included).

 

We can try a few tricks...

 

First, I've seen the option for completely disabling on a system-wide basis the Java installations. Please refer to this link for the procedure:  http://osxdaily.com/2012/09/08/how-to-disable-java/  

 

You may try to disable any Java on your system and then launch Moviestorm; please try executing Moviestorm directly from the command line in a Terminal windows.

 

Another possibility: creating a shell script acting as a wrapper for launching Moviestorm, so the PATH environment variable includes a reference to the folder the Moviestorm's JRE is installed in.  If everything else fails and you feel brave enough, we can give it a try.

 

One last reflection: it would be enraging enough if we concluded at last that Moviestorm is not compatible with High Sierra -that should be clearly and explicitly stated in their site-, being a OS theorically able to run 32-bit applications, but take into account that the very next release of macOS won't run  any 32-bit application at all, so, unless a new 64-bit version of Moviestorm is released, this is the fate for every fellow out there running Moviestorm on a Apple  system.

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#13 JillBauer

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 12:19 PM

hi there,

 

i tried both console (event viewer) and activity monitor, but apart from some a few lines calling java (and not ending in error) there's nothing else- I think the problem is not the java, but the nvidia toolkit- BECAUSE, i uninstalled java, re-installed the latest moviestorm, and when i started it, it asked for java. Then i reinstalled java, and it stopped asking for it, and now (like before) is stalled on "checking hardware"- which, if i remember correctly, is a series of video/audio/memory checks- which, I guess, is the NVIDIA cg toolkit job :-(

 

You know, what WOULD help, is getting our hands on some other Mac user log (someone still on Sierra), and reading it to see WHERE, and BY WHOM is the "hardware checking" happening- that way, we could say for certain if its java or nvidia. 

 

I would argue this is Ben's job, but this morning we had this exchange:

 

From: ben.sanders (Support staff)

Subject: moviestorm stalls completely after high sierra update

I'm not sure I can help you then.
Possibly you could install an earlier version of the mac operating system on an external drive, and use that to run Moviestorm.
 

And then Me:

When is Moviestorm going to get an update, making it compatible with high sierra and the future? its not going to survive if it depends on legacy java and legacy nvidia (did u know nvidia STOPPED updating the cg toolkit in 2012?)  or are you just writing off all mac users? someone at moviestorm should at the very least try moviestorm on an iMac with high sierra and TRY to find out EXACTLY what the problem is- possibly it can still be fixed- possibly the new FS of high sierra or whatever it is can still be worked around- what’s the point of buying software and add ons and then just being told: u can’t be helped?

 

i haven't heard anything new since then...



#14 jamoram62

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 05:20 PM

You seem to have a very good understanding of the most technical aspects of the operating system, far beyond that of the average typical user not willing to deal with the inner workings of the computer on her desk.

I used to think the main suspect was the JRE and, if so, we could still hope to work it out one way or another. But I'm starting to agree with you that that nVidia thing may be the main offender in this case; if so, I'm afraid we're most probably out of luck.  If this is actually the case, I'm afraid that only the folks in Moviestorm could do something about, for they are the only with the knowledge necessary for eventually fixing the problem. But it looks like the technical support is almost non-existent in practice, and I suspect the same goes for the development department.

Regarding the suggestion by Ben... Well, that or other similar alternative (such as setting up a virtual machine exclusively for running MS inside) may work, but, as a developer myself, I think this is like conceding their product is legacy stuff and no support may be expected in the future. Sometimes it's the only workaround at hand when your business is bound to a piece of software unsupported, but the only real solution on the long-term is scrapping it and moving out.

I've been disassembling (in the past I made some reverse-engineering work, but this is now a long time forgotten skill) the moviestorm.exe in my installation folder, but it seems to accept a few options, but apparently they do nothing:
--i4j-no-splash
--i4j-no-splash-err
--i4j-debug
--i4j-default-proc
--i4j-dont-wait


AFAIK it's merely a launcher for the real thing: it tries to locate a valid JRE executable and invokes a class/function named Launch4j. So no wonder no error messages come out when running this executable. The only time I've seen it complaining is when I mess with the bundled JRE.

 

To make things more interesting, the main Java library of the application (Moviestorm.sjar) is protected by some sort of DRM schema, so it can't be easily decompiled nor traced :(

 

And that's all, I'm afraid. Believe me, I'm very sorry I can't be of any further help. I wish I could be able to reproduce the issue, but getting Apple OS running on a VM is not an easy task. Anyway, should I come up with any new idea, I'll let you know.

 

 

PS: hey, I've just realised this makes my 666-th post in the forums. I'm feeling more and more evil every minute now... Just kidding.

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#15 JillBauer

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 08:17 PM

hi there :-)

 

i'm not THAT knowledgable :-)

but i just found out that even the iOS moviestorm up doesn't work after the iOS11 update- so that's weird- since there's no java or nvidia on iOS devices- i think...



#16 jamoram62

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 08:27 PM

AFAIK iOS 11 is a 64 bit-only OS, so any app not updated to include a 64 bit version in its installation package wont run at all on iOS 11 or later.. The same goes for the very next release of macOS.

I've got lots of paid apps purchased for my iOS gadgets, a good number of them still working on iOS 10 but not currently supported, and that's why I won't update unless strictly necessary. BTW this Appocalypse was a much anticipated crisis.

ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#17 jamoram62

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

It seems that Moviestorm has finally updated the information in their System Requirements page, and have now added a warning to their potential customers using a Mac:

 

PLEASE NOTE MacOS 10.13 (High Sierra) IS NOT SUPPORTED AT THIS TIME


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM



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