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Skeletons!
 
Armanus
post Jan 31 2011, 9:38 PM
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OMG! biggrin.gif

I have plans...do you?


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lucindamc123
post Jan 31 2011, 9:48 PM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Jan 31 2011, 03:38 PM) *
OMG! biggrin.gif

I have plans...do you?



Oh fantastic. I have so many plans for these. Glad I have learned animation now in Milkshape and I will be able to create the custom characters I need for Vautrin from Moviestorm characters.


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Chris Ollis
post Jan 31 2011, 9:49 PM
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QUOTE (lucindamc123 @ Jan 31 2011, 09:48 PM) *
Oh fantastic. I have so many plans for these. Glad I have learned animation now in Milkshape and I will be able to create the custom characters I need for Vautrin from Moviestorm characters.


It's highly unlikely you'll be able to transfer them between packages Lucinda, the Cal format is not particularly forgiving.
To save a lot of time and effort the skeletons are currently (today's opinion) going out as is. No documentation, no support, just giving you what you've been asking for and stepping away to see what happens!

May the sweet lord Cthulhu have mercy on my soul


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Armanus
post Jan 31 2011, 10:04 PM
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At the top of the mountain it is but a snowball.....at least we're getting the snow! wink.gif


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Armanus
post Jan 31 2011, 10:57 PM
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What potential issues would there be if someone who had software that could open Cal3d exported the skeletons in another format, such as OBJ or 3DS for people to use in Blender or Milkshape? I assume this is going to be nothing more then armature rigging with proper bone names, so it should be pretty straightforward?


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rampa
post Jan 31 2011, 11:22 PM
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Woot! biggrin.gif

Happy rigging everyone! Thank you MS!

Guess I better re-install now so I'm ready. My computer could use a clean wipe.
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lucindamc123
post Jan 31 2011, 11:27 PM
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But wouldn't we be able to create new animations for them? I mean, the Cal 3d skeleton can be imported into Blender. It wouldn't matter if we didn't have the textures because an animation could be created from the skeleton.


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Armanus
post Jan 31 2011, 11:32 PM
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Blender doesn't come with a CAL3D importer that I am aware of. There are exporting scripts that you can get online, but I haven't been able to find any for imports. If you found one I'd love it if you could point me in the right direction.


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lucindamc123
post Jan 31 2011, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Jan 31 2011, 05:32 PM) *
Blender doesn't come with a CAL3D importer that I am aware of. There are exporting scripts that you can get online, but I haven't been able to find any for imports. If you found one I'd love it if you could point me in the right direction.



I saw it on the version of Blender I have. But anyway, there are Cal 3d viewers so at least I will be able to see how the skeletons are constructed, what bones and where they are placed so I could make my characters I create more realistic and perhaps even be able to do facial animations. And I will be able to get a better idea of how to create lower poly human and animal characters.


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tree
post Feb 1 2011, 1:34 AM
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Bring on the fully rigged 3DSMax male/female heads and bodies.
Along with the other types of assets like 'cars', rigged props, fireplaces etc..
I could sure use them as references for new stuff i'd like to work on.

Will be great to be able to finally get to use these assets


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primaveranz
post Feb 1 2011, 3:46 AM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Feb 1 2011, 10:32 AM) *
Blender doesn't come with a CAL3D importer that I am aware of.


I agree, Blender has an exporter but no importer even in the latest versions.

I wonder if it is a CAL3D licencing issue? As there appear to be many free export options but as far as I can see no import ones. huh.gif

<Edit> As soon as I wrote that, I found that Misfit3d does have an import option. Haven't figured out quite how to use it as it is looking for a .cal3d file not a .csf file. But no doubt Rampa or some kind soul can take pity on us wink.gif </Edit>


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Armanus
post Feb 1 2011, 3:47 AM
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Lucinda, which Blender version do you have? 2.5? I looked in 2.49, haven't tried 2.5 yet. If it's there it would be great, since 3DS Max is well out of my price range.


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rampa
post Feb 1 2011, 4:24 AM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Jan 31 2011, 07:46 PM) *
<Edit> As soon as I wrote that, I found that Misfit3d does have an import option. Haven't figured out quite how to use it as it is looking for a .cal3d file not a .csf file. But no doubt Rampa or some kind soul can take pity on us wink.gif </Edit>


As far as I know, the cal3d output that MS reads is not importable into anything (in terms of rebuilding). I was able to get a look at the MS skeletons about a month ago using a program called "CAL3D Viewer". All it could show was lines where the bones were and dots where the joints were. I think a CSF is essentially "run-time only data". I do recall MS posting that before, and I bet Ben or Chris will give us the reason why.

I was very excited when I first read that Misfit Model would read CAL3D. Seems it will read the ".CAL3D" it spits out with the CMF, CRF, CSF, etc. I have not looked into what is actually in this file.

Anyway. I hope that there will be a way to get the skeleton into these "lesser" programs, as well as Blender.
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lucindamc123
post Feb 1 2011, 4:24 AM
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I have 2.55 beta version and I could swear I opened it and I could import Cal 3d files but I just opened it now and I don't see them listed. I wonder if there is a later version that I might have because I know I saw it there. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it was another program I have. I will keep checking.


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primaveranz
post Feb 1 2011, 4:38 AM
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So MS guys... can 3dsMAX (or any other software that you are aware of) output the .csf files into any other format that we may be able to use or is the release of the skeletons only of use to people with $3000 to spare wink.gif


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Chris Ollis
post Feb 1 2011, 6:40 AM
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They will be the MAX files that we have repeatedly been asked to release. Male and Female base rigs, nothing more. Not the cal files which have been sat inside Moviestorm since day one should anyone want to try loading them in to whatever package they use.

Yes you can export the files out of MAX in to whatever format you want, but at that point there is every possibility that the rig will break down and not be recognised by Moviestorm. This is why I have asked about who has MAX 2008.

Staying in MAX (2009 upward) should be fine, but we would be unable to offer any kind of support at all due to our only having old copies of MAX. But seeing as we are going with a no support whatsoever approach that isn't any more of an issue anyway - and in fact I shouldn't probably even telling you this much biggrin.gif


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primaveranz
post Feb 1 2011, 7:51 AM
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QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Feb 1 2011, 05:40 PM) *
Not the cal files which have been sat inside Moviestorm since day one should anyone want to try loading them in to whatever package they use.


Ah.... so does this imply that we can legally extract any of the MS mesh files for example and modify them and redistribute them as we like? I assumed they were copyright.


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Chris Ollis
post Feb 1 2011, 8:02 AM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 1 2011, 07:51 AM) *
Ah.... so does this imply that we can legally extract any of the MS mesh files for example and modify them and redistribute them as we like? I assumed they were copyright.


No I'm saying the Cal skeletons that people seem so eager to do something with (what I'm not sure seeing as we only use them as the same reference point you do when exporting something) have always been there as a fair chunk of modders know.



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lucindamc123
post Feb 1 2011, 4:38 PM
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Will these files be in 3ds format? Because I have Sketchup Pro and I can import 3ds files into that program. What I am most interested in is seeing the bones and how they are placed and how the mesh is set up so I can learn from them, for instance, in order to do facial animations for my characters or make the clothing move with the puppet in a smooth natural way. Of course I have the Make Human models I can use and they are very detailed but they are too high poly and I always have to work on them a lot to make them lower poly and they are not clothed so I have to draw the clothing on them. As long as I can keep my human models under 8000 faces, they will import fine into Moviestorm. I am trying for 5000 to 6000 faces but that is difficult to do without having them look too boxy.


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Chris Ollis
post Feb 1 2011, 4:45 PM
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QUOTE (lucindamc123 @ Feb 1 2011, 04:38 PM) *
Will these files be in 3ds format? Because I have Sketchup Pro and I can import 3ds files into that program. What I am most interested in is seeing the bones and how they are placed and how the mesh is set up so I can learn from them, for instance, in order to do facial animations for my characters or make the clothing move with the puppet in a smooth natural way. Of course I have the Make Human models I can use and they are very detailed but they are too high poly and I always have to work on them a lot to make them lower poly and they are not clothed so I have to draw the clothing on them. As long as I can keep my human models under 8000 faces, they will import fine into Moviestorm. I am trying for 5000 to 6000 faces but that is difficult to do without having them look too boxy.


No Lucinda they are MAX 2008 files


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