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New body types in the future?


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#1 jimthehermit

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:47 PM

I know children are asked alot, but will there ever be body types other than male and female? Like a Giant/Monster type and a Child/Gnome/Dwarf type? Or one type that's resizable?

I assume the code to interact with the objects are built into the objects- but they don't have to sit on sofas. Walking, running, postures, gestures, being shot at, etc., would be fine.

If I had a bigfoot (and a dog and raccoon), I could film one of my short stories.

#2 jimthehermit

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:14 PM

I'm sorry I started this thread, I know it's been asked so many times, and I don't want to seem like a pest- but this is one of those things that seems so easy to implement into the current version and it's maddening not to have it. angry.gif

#3 Armanus

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 04:24 PM

After reading all the numerous threads about this, it shows clearly that this is anything but easy to implement. It's something everyone wants and I'm sure MS would love to give it to us, if not for how incredibly large the task is. Hindsight's 20/20, and I'm guessing looking back they probably should have included this in the original release, but they had reasons not to, and it is what it is.
But everyone agrees that it is something highly desirable, and frustrating to not have smile.gif

#4 lucindamc123

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 04:30 PM

Yes but we can now make our own animated characters and I have made a lot of children and they have physical animation as well as lip movement.

#5 primaveranz

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (lucindamc123 @ Dec 1 2011, 04:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
.. and I have made a lot of children and they have physical animation as well as lip movement.


I didn't know that Lucinda. Why didn't you mention it before?

"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.

#6 lucindamc123

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

QUOTE (primaveranz @ Nov 30 2011, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't know that Lucinda. Why didn't you mention it before?



I have talked about them in the Now Showing section and the new mod releases section. Right now only the Chinese children have lip movement. The ones I made before don't have it yet as I have not had time to do more animations for them.

#7 corthew

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:20 PM

If they could even just make the male and female androgynous.

There are short women and tall men and mid teen kids are usually around mom's height so it would vastly increase the range of possibilities if they just made male and female characters for both puppet sizes.smile.gif

Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#8 lucindamc123

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:47 AM

I wonder if any of the modders who have had time to work with the Moviestorm Skeletons they released to us have tried resizing them. That might work but then you would also have to make new wardrobes for them.

#9 writerly

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:27 AM

QUOTE (lucindamc123 @ Dec 1 2011, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder if any of the modders who have had time to work with the Moviestorm Skeletons they released to us have tried resizing them.


SHUDDER

Not good...not good at all...

I think the only way to do it would be to build an entirely new skeleton using the same names as the original skeletons. Even then, I'm dubious about the results. In all likelyhood an slight arm animation when scaled to the smaller skeleton would still be massive.

It's a big job that only MS or a group of us with their help MIGHT MIGHT be able to pull off...

C

#10 lucindamc123

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:44 AM

QUOTE (writerly @ Nov 30 2011, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SHUDDER

Not good...not good at all...

I think the only way to do it would be to build an entirely new skeleton using the same names as the original skeletons. Even then, I'm dubious about the results. In all likelyhood an slight arm animation when scaled to the smaller skeleton would still be massive.

It's a big job that only MS or a group of us with their help MIGHT MIGHT be able to pull off...

C


I know what you mean about it being a lot of work Each of the children I created took a couple of days to do and they only have about 10 animations each and no change of clothes, except you can change the texture image to make the clothes look different.

#11 primaveranz

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:47 AM

There are only two skeletons. One male and one female. I'm sure you could change the size of them, but then, apart from breaking all the animations and probably a lot of the props, you would still have everyone the same size again. So why would you even try? blink.gif

"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.

#12 Harb40

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:03 AM

I know it was mentioned in the past the main reason there are not different height puppets is due to the interactions being set to a certain height/distance. New codes would have to be written to do all the animations for shorter characters and for taller characters. As far as fatter/thinner, I don't know why this couldn't be done. There are aliens but they are limited. Many more variations to the aliens would help some.
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#13 Ben_S

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:43 AM

We do plan to have children sized characters at some point; I had done some initial checks and hacking and determined that there are a small number of code changes required to get additional characters working, and a large quantity of art for an additional character. New characters would require quite a lot of animation just to function, and quite a lot more to be in any way useful.
Once we get to the stage of having a functional third character, then I would be able to let our modders know what the requirements are. It might be a long while before that is possible though.
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#14 corthew

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (Ben_S @ Dec 1 2011, 06:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We do plan to have children sized characters at some point...
It might be a long while before that is possible though.




We're just glad to know you care. wink.gif
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#15 lucindamc123

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:15 PM

Thank, Ben. I know what a lot of work it is but having children with the quality and variety of your adult characters will really be a bonus to Moviestorm.

#16 primaveranz

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:44 PM

This is excellent news Ben. However am I right in assuming that even with three characters you could only have three body shapes in the one MS movie?
"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.

#17 Armanus

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:35 PM

I don't think skeleton has much to do with body shapes, unless your body shape is something other then a fairly symmetrical human. The thing with body shapes like, say, chubby, is that the program doesn't have any collision detection, so an animation the moves the arm close to the body will probably have intersection issues with the body mesh. But theoretically, if you're willing to ignore mesh intersection issues, you can attach just about any body shape onto the skeleton rig that you want.

But you would still only have the three heights to choose from, since MS character animations use XYZ coordinates locally (relative to the mesh) rather then relative to the coordinates of another interactive mesh (like another puppet).

#18 corthew

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Armanus @ Dec 1 2011, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing with body shapes like, say, chubby, is that the program doesn't have any collision detection, so an animation the moves the arm close to the body will probably have intersection issues with the body mesh.



That point keeps confusing me. The puppet animations have intersections as they are.
Have a character sitting down try to wipe lint off his leg.
Have two characters kiss.
Have the sitting character just sit there with standard random animations occurring.

Look at most interaction animations or animations with the character in a sitting or posed position and you are likely to see intersections from some angle at some point.
We either ignore it or be creative with camera angles.
Someone who needs fat people for a scene will happily work around the intersections one way or another if they know that is the only way they were going to get fat people. They might prefer not to have to, but they'd rather that than not have fat people at all.

Same for children. Several of us have found creative ways to work Lucinda's children into scenes that needed them. I'm currently working on a project that I've had to find a way to explain the absence of children and make it seem natural on a world where the key character receives his father's memories at birth.

No children but the main character is the equivalent of a child for much of the beginning of the movie.

Honestly though the necessity to do that made a few other points more plausible as a result and I'm happy with the resulting story-line but what of historical accounts where children played a key role?

What of story-lines that require flashbacks to a person's childhood?

So I'm VERY glad to hear they are now working on that for a future release.smile.gif


Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#19 lucindamc123

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:47 AM

I had intersection mesh problems at first with my characters I created and animated and I found it was because I welded the vertices BEFORE I did the animations. You have to do the animations first and then weld the vertices. Now I don't know if this is possible to do with 3ds Max or not. But it is easy to do with Milkshape but of course you can do better animations with 3ds Max.



#20 Armanus

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:56 AM

You're right corthew, and I have seen the same thing several times myself with existing animations. I agree that people will find ways around it with camera angles and the like, but the MS peeps have said in the past they want to avoid that as much as possible so no one thinks the program is lacking in quality. I understand that, but I understand working around issues to get what you want since I did that so much when I was making movies with Sims 2.
I'm all for getting the stuff and working around it until MS has a satisfactory fix, but so far the only fat meshes have been from Chris Ollis as 3rd-party mods, and I think that's probably where it's going to stay at until MS has an answer. Any modder who can model clothing meshes should be able to do it (and probably make a decent penny doing so if they are good).



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