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Stumped again I think ...character movement around prop, ?
 
urbanlamb
post Feb 23 2012, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 23 2012, 10:15 PM) *
100% agree. two or more weeks spent on this for them would mean two or more weeks not working on the stuff we can't as easily work around, like a lack of children or the head and foot-held prop dilemma. smile.gif


apart from purchasing 3dsmax or some other program like that I cannot easily work around my issues hence the request smile.gif

I think people are not understand what i am saying to be honest so i will just ignore the issue because i am starting to get frustrated with the responses which show zero understanding of what i am saying
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primaveranz
post Feb 23 2012, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (urbanlamb @ Feb 24 2012, 05:32 AM) *
i am suggesting that moviestorm coders contribute the cal 3d exporter to the opensourced blender project to allow for its use without us having to import to another program so we can import into blender.


Yeah I asked Matt that on the radio show a couple of weeks back and he said the same thing as Ben and Chris - lack of resource.


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"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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corthew
post Feb 24 2012, 2:16 AM
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QUOTE (urbanlamb @ Feb 23 2012, 07:26 PM) *
apart from purchasing 3dsmax or some other program like that I cannot easily work around my issues hence the request smile.gif

I think people are not understand what i am saying to be honest so i will just ignore the issue because i am starting to get frustrated with the responses which show zero understanding of what i am saying


I'm going to take a stab at explaining possibly why MS isn't spending time on a converter from Blender.

Cal3d isn't owned by MS. Its a separate company that has stopped work on the software. If a Cal3d importer/exporter for Blender is to be made the blender community needs to do it. Its everything MS programmers and animators can do to handle the software they already work in. To convert from one modelling format to another is no small task. The MS team would need to know exactly how Blender generates its models and animations and how to translate those animations and models into a format MS can handle.

Think about it this way...It would be to the Benefit of the Blender community to have a cal import/exporter.

If it wasn't next to impossible it would have been done already.

Part of the reason it hasn't is that Blender has grown far beyond what Cal3d is capable of or what MS can handle.

Have you tried Misfit?

Anything you could make in Blender that you could actually use in MS you can probably do in Misfit.


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Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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urbanlamb
post Feb 24 2012, 2:28 AM
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http://www.moviestorm.co.uk/community/inde...p;vid_id=108040
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primaveranz
post Feb 24 2012, 6:09 AM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 24 2012, 02:16 PM) *
Have you tried Misfit?

Anything you could make in Blender that you could actually use in MS you can probably do in Misfit.


If you can do it in Misfit you can do it in Milkshape. The real issue is that Blender has far better tools to allow delicate animation work.



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"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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corthew
post Feb 24 2012, 7:39 AM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 24 2012, 02:09 AM) *
If you can do it in Misfit you can do it in Milkshape. The real issue is that Blender has far better tools to allow delicate animation work.

Misfit, though, both imports and exports cal files without jumping through all the hoops.smile.gif

The only advantage I see to Milkshape is the other formats it can import but if you're making the mods from scratch Misfit seems to me to be much easier to use and move around in.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 24 2012, 7:40 AM
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QUOTE (urbanlamb @ Feb 23 2012, 10:28 PM) *


Looks good. Glad you got it figured out.smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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urbanlamb
post Feb 24 2012, 9:18 AM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 24 2012, 07:40 AM) *
Looks good. Glad you got it figured out.smile.gif


hehe it was done but I just can't keep coming back to 'if i could do x in blender it would be so much easier plus I can get more complicated' I am trying to do a 'they do x with iclone' here but really if they could develop tools for use with blender it would be a huge huge breakthrough in the community here. Its like the difference between having the entire pie and the crumbs left on the plate

blender is the pie
misfit and milkshape are just the crumbs

anyhow its not impossible for SIMPLE animations its doable but if you want to get fancy you can't my next task is to animate a chicken and have an accompanying animation for the character. I am pretty sure I wont be able to complete that piece but I will try smile.gif

again if i was doing it in blender the chicken would be designed in an hour (actually i did it last night ) and the animations and bones would be done the next evening. I am trying to decide if i will use an overlay of a straight cgi from blender or whether I will attempt to bring it into moviestorm because it would be a really cool mod. Is it worth it though when all i really need is an overlay and it will work because I can already do this in blender as blender can be used for making movies its slow like iclone or daz but its free smile.gif
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corthew
post Feb 24 2012, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE (urbanlamb @ Feb 24 2012, 05:18 AM) *
Its like the difference between having the entire pie and the crumbs left on the plate
blender is the pie
misfit and milkshape are just the crumbs


Here's what I can do with crumbs:



wink.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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primaveranz
post Feb 24 2012, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 24 2012, 07:39 PM) *
The only advantage I see to Milkshape is the other formats it can import

Does Misfit let you select vertices in 3d mode? That is a big plus for Milkshape in my book.


--------------------
"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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Reacher
post Feb 24 2012, 3:04 PM
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For Blender -> Moviestorm pipeline, try the following:

I was able to run through this method for a simple mesh with a single two bone animation.
  • Create mesh, material/texture armature, skeletal animation in Blender, export as FBX
  • Import FBX into fragMOTION, Export as MS3D (select only one copy of your animations, default should be all of them jammed together).
  • Open the MS3D in Misfit Model, rename materials to Cal3D standard "file [n]"; if you had multiple animations, split them up.
  • Export as .cal
  • Copy to Moviestorm Addon folder structure.

It would be nice to be able to import the FBX directly into Milkshape and export from there, but I had some issues going that route, I will experiment more with it over the weekend.

-- Reacher

PS: fragMOTION is available here, there is a trial if you want to test it out.
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luxaeternam
post Feb 24 2012, 4:02 PM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 24 2012, 01:56 PM) *
Does Misfit let you select vertices in 3d mode? That is a big plus for Milkshape in my book.


I think one of the Misfit viewing modes does indeed let you select the vertices from a 3D view (orthogonal is it?) which is a relief because I only figured it out after lots of kerfuffle selecting and deselecting in a combination of 2D views.


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rampa
post Feb 24 2012, 5:58 PM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 24 2012, 04:56 AM) *
Does Misfit let you select vertices in 3d mode? That is a big plus for Milkshape in my book.


It does. Not only that, but they are visible when you do. Hold down control and drag in a view window to get any orthagonal view. Select with the vertice tool. Left mouse selects (can use shift with it), and right mouse deselects.
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urbanlamb
post Feb 24 2012, 7:25 PM
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QUOTE (Reacher @ Feb 24 2012, 03:04 PM) *
For Blender -> Moviestorm pipeline, try the following:

I was able to run through this method for a simple mesh with a single two bone animation.
  • Create mesh, material/texture armature, skeletal animation in Blender, export as FBX
  • Import FBX into fragMOTION, Export as MS3D (select only one copy of your animations, default should be all of them jammed together).
  • Open the MS3D in Misfit Model, rename materials to Cal3D standard "file [n]"; if you had multiple animations, split them up.
  • Export as .cal
  • Copy to Moviestorm Addon folder structure.

It would be nice to be able to import the FBX directly into Milkshape and export from there, but I had some issues going that route, I will experiment more with it over the weekend.

-- Reacher

PS: fragMOTION is available here, there is a trial if you want to test it out.


okay I will try that but to be honest I am kinda balking at paying for all these little programs over time they add up in price. I am considering moving to iclone I am afraid that over time this software is giving me too many headaches. I cannot do what I want to do with it. I like it but I want a better pipeline for making mods so I can make them do exactly what I want them to do. Especially when I know in my heart of hearts certain things are possible. I still like moviestorm but most of my ideas require complicated animations. I looked at misfit and I hated it. Milkshape is an issue of me hating it less. I will try fragmotion maybe it will work but I have to honestly say that if one is not able to work with the stock animations included with moviestorm iclone is a better solution as they are now about to release 3dexchange5 which includes the ability to import from daz/carrerra and blender full skeletons with animations. That alone has me sold. I like the realtime updating with moviestorm but again i have to restart the program and save after 2 or 3 animations although I found that if you avoid the cutting room you can get away with more (the first time). Its a toss up at this point do I use software that does not update in real time which in itself is time consuming as real time updating is extremely slow anyhow or do I use iclone and let the thing render while I go to work or sleep for a day. Its hard to say but at the moment I am feeling rather crippled by the fact I can't use the animations I want.

Anyhow let me try that one lol reality is though misfit and milkshape alone are not acceptable for what I need to do.
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corthew
post Feb 24 2012, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 24 2012, 08:56 AM) *
Does Misfit let you select vertices in 3d mode? That is a big plus for Milkshape in my book.


Which mode isn't 3d mode in Misfit?

If I hold CTRL and drag the model rotates around in any window and I can still select vertices in all except the perspective view.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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rampa
post Feb 24 2012, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 24 2012, 02:39 PM) *
Which mode isn't 3d mode in Misfit?

If I hold CTRL and drag the model rotates around in any window and I can still select vertices in all except the perspective view.



Misfit is the better program for this and several other reasons in my book. smile.gif

The push/pull tools are useful as well. They allowed me to create my Minotaur head from the stock head so I did not need to re-rig. They are those curve looking things up in the toolbar next to the scale.
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corthew
post Feb 25 2012, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE (rampa @ Feb 24 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Misfit is the better program for this and several other reasons in my book. smile.gif

The push/pull tools are useful as well. They allowed me to create my Minotaur head from the stock head so I did not need to re-rig. They are those curve looking things up in the toolbar next to the scale.


I'm VERY familiar with those. smile.gif

Keeps me from having to drag every single vertice one---at---a---time, for a simple curved mesh.

Another thing I love about Misfit is that I've set the perspective view grid for bottom view. When I load the default male or female the grid is where its suppose to be. I haven't found a way to make bottom view identified as the front view but I know bottom view is front so its workable.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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primaveranz
post Feb 25 2012, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE (rampa @ Feb 25 2012, 11:44 AM) *
Misfit is the better program for this and several other reasons in my book. smile.gif

The push/pull tools are useful as well. They allowed me to create my Minotaur head from the stock head so I did not need to re-rig. They are those curve looking things up in the toolbar next to the scale.

Maybe I'd better give it another try. I was really put off by the crappy screens that make it look like you have forgotten to put on your reading spectacles. wink.gif
Milkshape also has the benefit of the excellent e-book, I seem to remember Misfit's help is rather sparse.


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"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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primaveranz
post Feb 25 2012, 5:40 AM
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QUOTE (writerly @ Feb 24 2012, 06:21 AM) *
It isn't the world's smoothest workflow, but it does work and is reliable.

It works to a degree.

Moviestorm staff use 3D Max to animate, because it is an excellent animation tool. Blender is just as good as 3d Max and infinitely cheaper i.e. free.
Milkshape and Misfit are not in the same ballpark.
Urbanlamb and I are talking about being able to produce animations as good as the MS ones not just "near enough for Flamenco" ones. wink.gif

However I accept the fact that the Cal3d exporter is never going to happen so I will investigate Reacher's approach.

I decided Reacher is like Arne Saknussemm in "Journey to the Centre of the Earth". It doesn't matter where you go exploring, you find his initials carved on the wall somewhere because he's already been there and done it. If only we could catch up with him and tie him down for a while! Hopefully he is secretly working on the MS version of Sintel smile.gif


--------------------
"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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urbanlamb
post Feb 25 2012, 7:42 AM
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QUOTE (primaveranz @ Feb 25 2012, 05:40 AM) *
It works to a degree.

Moviestorm staff use 3D Max to animate, because it is an excellent animation tool. Blender is just as good as 3d Max and infinitely cheaper i.e. free.
Milkshape and Misfit are not in the same ballpark.
Urbanlamb and I are talking about being able to produce animations as good as the MS ones not just "near enough for Flamenco" ones. wink.gif

However I accept the fact that the Cal3d exporter is never going to happen so I will investigate Reacher's approach.

I decided Reacher is like Arne Saknussemm in "Journey to the Centre of the Earth". It doesn't matter where you go exploring, you find his initials carved on the wall somewhere because he's already been there and done it. If only we could catch up with him and tie him down for a while! Hopefully he is secretly working on the MS version of Sintel smile.gif


I am trying it with my chicken if i can make my chicken look like a chicken (animation wise lol it looks like a chicken model wise) and make the accompanying avatar animation . I haven't given up yet but its upsetting to have to work so hard for a work around is all. Anyhow in the end it boils down to the most powerful tool available in the same ballpark as 3dsmax not being supported . Its an elegant tool and extremely powerful and I just find it a shame that its not supported as it would open up so many doors of posibilities lol.

Anyhow I am busy trying to make my chicken texture the way it is in my head for the chicken and then I will animate him and see if it imports using the method reacher explained smile.gif
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