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Are user created walk cycles possible?
 
corthew
post Feb 25 2012, 8:07 PM
Post #21


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Well, I'm having a small problem.

I've created four walk cycles, one each of Right and Left sideways walks for both Male01 and Female01 puppets.

I placed the .caf files for the male walk cycles in the HoC_Walks/Data/Puppets/Male01/Animations/Gaits folder
and the .caf files for the female walk cycles in the HoC_Walks/Data/Puppets/Female01/Animations/Gaits folder.

There are two .gaits files in the Puppets folder.

WalkRight.gait contains this:

<mscope.ui.puppetshop.GaitDesigner_-Gait>
<stub>WalkRight</stub>
<menuName>WalkRight</menuName>
<soundsLike>walk</soundsLike>
</mscope.ui.puppetshop.GaitDesigner_-Gait>

And WalkLeft.gait contains this:

<mscope.ui.puppetshop.GaitDesigner_-Gait>
<stub>WalkLeft</stub>
<menuName>WalkLeft</menuName>
<soundsLike>walk</soundsLike>
</mscope.ui.puppetshop.GaitDesigner_-Gait>

All four animations show up in the ModShop and do what they are suppose to do.

I save state for each one for both Male01 and Female01 puppets and publish but when I restart and go into directors view only the WalkRight option is available and only for the Male.

I tried deleting that animation, I've tried deleting all male01 animations.

No matter what I try they all work in ModShop but only the Male01 WalkRight.caf animation or the same file renamed shows up in Directors view.

Hmmm...It occurs to me that the

QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 23 2012, 07:49 AM) *
Covers ground (ie the end up in a positiion forward of their start point)


point may be the one I'm missing. Time to make sure the last translation of each animation ends up a bit ahead of the first.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 25 2012, 8:11 PM
Post #22


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Nope...That wasn't it.

The one that works is so beautiful.smile.gif

If I can just get the rest to.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 25 2012, 9:46 PM
Post #23


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Well, I may be closer to an answer. I just edited the one that was working and now it also doesn't. I just need to figure out why. smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 25 2012, 10:10 PM
Post #24


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Nope, I'm stumped. I'll have to do something else until Ben or someone can take a look at tell me whats wrong.smile.gif

At least it is doable.

It was so easy to create the first test. smile.gif

Here, I believe, is the full addon currently not in a working state:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51344100/HoC_Walks.addon

The animations work fine in ModShop. I save state and publish and they don't show in MovieStorm.

One did but not now after making a change to the end position of the root bone on the male for the only one that was working.

If the animation must start in mid stride the beginning and end root positions may be what the problem is but I'll be patient and wait.smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 26 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #25


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Ok, I'm impatient.smile.gif

I redid a crappy animation walk set just to test things. This time the left walk works. The right walk does not.

I copied the left walk to a new file in the folder and created a .gait file for it and the new one works as well.

I did notice though that the test left walk started with the left foot moving. I believe the ones where the right walk worked began with the left foot first as well.

I'm going to test that and let you know.

Was the creator of the walk engine in the military by any chance?smile.gif

"Your left...Your left...Your left, your right, your left."

Such a way with words. smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 26 2012, 4:29 PM
Post #26


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Nope. I can actually create two visually identical walks and one will work and the other will not.

Both will work in the ModShop though.

For some reason I am able to bring it into the ModShop and have it looking like its all good, but when I get into Directors view some of them work and others do not.

If I copy one that does work over to one that did not it will then work but with the wrong animation obviously.

Am I right to believe this is not a problem with the way I'm doing it?

I troubleshot this every way I can think of without being a MovieStorm insider.smile.gif

I hate waiting.smile.gif

Why can't staff work 25/8 like the rest of us? rolleyes.gif

You know, the little rolleyes smilie looks more like he's an "I have no knowledge of those events" smilie.smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 27 2012, 11:02 AM
Post #27


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Just a bump so this one isn't missed.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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Ben_S
post Feb 27 2012, 12:09 PM
Post #28


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It is throwing exceptions while trying to build the gait from the animations. I think it may not be getting to the later animation after throwing while building earlier ones, which might be why putting one bad one in stops the working one from working. Maybe.
Although, that said, both of the ones in the addon linked to dont build into gaits correctly.

I still think it might be to do with the animations making forward progress; might be worth trying adding a little forward motion to the animations.


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corthew
post Feb 27 2012, 12:16 PM
Post #29


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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 27 2012, 08:09 AM) *
It is throwing exceptions while trying to build the gait from the animations. I think it may not be getting to the later animation after throwing while building earlier ones, which might be why putting one bad one in stops the working one from working. Maybe.
Although, that said, both of the ones in the addon linked to dont build into gaits correctly.

I still think it might be to do with the animations making forward progress; might be worth trying adding a little forward motion to the animations.


I believe I did but I've tried so many things, smile.gif , who knows.

I'll try it again this evening.smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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Ben_S
post Feb 27 2012, 2:21 PM
Post #30


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The problem is happening because one of the animation tracks doesnt have any keyframes after the guy puts his left foot down so that it contacts the floor (at about 1.5 seconds into the anim).

I've not sure which track this is, but I do note that you have very little (posibly none at all) animation on the upper body and arms. It might be worth trying having some animation for each arm, and for the head. It probably doesnt have to be anything much, but nothing at all might be breaking it.


Edit: Think I found a code fix to stop this from breaking things, but I'm afraid it isnt going to make todays patch, so you will need to actually animate the upper body a bit so that the keyframes dont all get discarded because they are identical, causing the animation reordering to fail.


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corthew
post Feb 27 2012, 11:03 PM
Post #31


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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 27 2012, 10:21 AM) *
The problem is happening because one of the animation tracks doesnt have any keyframes after the guy puts his left foot down so that it contacts the floor (at about 1.5 seconds into the anim).

I've not sure which track this is, but I do note that you have very little (posibly none at all) animation on the upper body and arms. It might be worth trying having some animation for each arm, and for the head. It probably doesnt have to be anything much, but nothing at all might be breaking it.


Edit: Think I found a code fix to stop this from breaking things, but I'm afraid it isnt going to make todays patch, so you will need to actually animate the upper body a bit so that the keyframes dont all get discarded because they are identical, causing the animation reordering to fail.


That makes sense. I've only been keyframing the lower body changes for most of the attempts, leaving upper body keyframing for the first and last frame, and keyframing the root translations to get the correct foot to stay put when its told. tongue.gif

The hell is in the details. smile.gif

Edit: Just a note, the puppet seems to pivot into position for the sideways walks which I'm guessing is because it's stepping forward codewise to a side stepping posiition?

I may not be able to overcome that on my end and if not, I'll likely not release this as an addon unless someone requests it and understands the limitations.

I don't know how easy/hard it would be on your end to add the sideways first steps for each direction but I'm assuming even then that my animations would still only be able to draw from the forward walk default?


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 3:17 AM
Post #32


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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 27 2012, 10:21 AM) *
I've not sure which track this is, but I do note that you have very little (posibly none at all) animation on the upper body and arms. It might be worth trying having some animation for each arm, and for the head. It probably doesnt have to be anything much, but nothing at all might be breaking it.


Ok, I tried keyframing a small upper torso bend to a left and right walk animation. One translated forward a bit. The other backward.

Neither one worked.

Then

I created a very simple left and right walk, both with upper body twists and arms swinging lightly.

I tried that with neither root translating forward then I tried with both of them translating forward.

Didn't work.

I've replaced the addon file linked in an earlier post with my latest attempt.

Here it is also:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51344100/HoC_Walks.addon

I think I'm going to try doing a straight forward walk tomorrow night.

Unless you have any ideas.smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 8:17 AM
Post #33


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Probably what confuses me most is that the rotation data is there and the translation data for the first and last keyed frames is there for every bone in the skeleton.

And keyframed bones in between are rotated and translated.

And MS can see it in ModShop but it says there are no keyframes after a certain point on the one you checked.

Is there something I should know and don't here? If ModShop is able to show the entire walk cycle then there must be keyframes. Right?


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 9:28 AM
Post #34


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I just added a copy of the addon to my dropbox where I edited one of the animations to add a few rotations to the leg joints along a different axis.

Now that one moves forward, has shoulders, elbows, spine, hips and knees all rotating to several keyframes and I've made certain both upper and lower body are in constant motion over the entire course of the 60 frames.

Doesn't work.

But I have had walk cycles work.

Maybe the Misfit file is becoming corrupted?

I'll start fresh next try.

What does this one look like on your end?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51344100/HoC_Walks%20%282%29.addon


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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Ben_S
post Feb 28 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #35


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The issue with the keyframes is that Moviestorm culls duplicate keyframes, which occure when a bone is in the same position from one frame to the next. Normally one doesnt need a keyframe when there is no change in position; this substantially reduces the memory footprint of the animations which are loaded.

The problem, however, is that this keyframe reduction doesnt work well with the walk cycle reordering - the walk animation is changed within Moviestorm so that it starts at the moment the left foot hits the ground, with the bits from before that added on after the rest of the anim.

Presumably it will break if any of the body sections dont have any keyframes: each leg, each arm, and the head.


With regard to the pre-walk, ie the bit as they start to walk, the problem is that it doesnt blend with the correct prewalks, as your animation is not in an expected direction. There are pre-walk animations that start walks in the relevant directions, but they wont be used, as Moviestorm doesnt know that your walks are special.


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Ben_S
post Feb 28 2012, 10:52 AM
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The anims in the addon in post 34 have a different problem to the ones that I tried the previous day.

These are failing in a bit of code that is trying to determine the lowest points, ie where the footfalls occur. The comment in the code says:

// Find those frames in the animation where the feet are at their
// lowest points - notional stationary points when this cycle gets
// bent along a spline. Additional constraint ( used when connecting
// the prewalk phase to the cycle phase ) is that when stationary
// the other leg must be trailing.

This StrafeRight animation doesnt have the character moving their feet properly (the legs pass through each other).

So:
At the point where the left foot is lowest, the right foot needs to be behind the left foot, and vice versa. I think the problem is that in this anim is not lifting up the feet correctly, and they not lowest when the foot is down.


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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 28 2012, 06:52 AM) *
This StrafeRight animation doesnt have the character moving their feet properly (the legs pass through each other).



Damn the details. smile.gif

Ok. I'm going to work on this this weekend.
Its good to know there's always some new detail I can miss. biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 28 2012, 06:26 AM) *
There are pre-walk animations that start walks in the relevant directions, but they wont be used, as Moviestorm doesnt know that your walks are special.


Is there a way from my end to get MS to use the appropriate pre-walk?


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 28 2012, 06:52 AM) *
// Find those frames in the animation where the feet are at their
// lowest points - notional stationary points when this cycle gets
// bent along a spline. Additional constraint ( used when connecting
// the prewalk phase to the cycle phase ) is that when stationary
// the other leg must be trailing.



That may explain something.

When a character is walking sideway for every other step one leg is in front of the other.

Somehow I need to find a way to have the leg that is in motion starting behind the stationary leg.

Since I've had it working I can only assume that its possible.

Something to note: For the animations that work,where the character is walking sideways, if I manipulate the walk path in the middle the footfall circle points in the direction of motion with the footprints facing perpendicular to the direction of the arrow.

Is it going by the foot bone?

If so, if the in-motion foot bone accidentally drops below the stationary one could that cause this?


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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Ben_S
post Feb 28 2012, 4:57 PM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 28 2012, 11:35 AM) *
Is there a way from my end to get MS to use the appropriate pre-walk?

No, sorry.

QUOTE (corthew @ Feb 28 2012, 11:45 AM) *
When a character is walking sideway for every other step one leg is in front of the other.

It worked with your previous example, I think, where you were actually animating the steps in a sensible way.
QUOTE
Somehow I need to find a way to have the leg that is in motion starting behind the stationary leg.

Since I've had it working I can only assume that its possible.

Something to note: For the animations that work,where the character is walking sideways, if I manipulate the walk path in the middle the footfall circle points in the direction of motion with the footprints facing perpendicular to the direction of the arrow.

Is it going by the foot bone?

If so, if the in-motion foot bone accidentally drops below the stationary one could that cause this?

It is a bad bad thing if the in motion foot is lower than the stationary one; there is code that tried to find where the foot is 'down' and it is basing it on the position being lowest and the foot not moving forwards. If there are no suitable points where both of these happen, it isnt a valid walk cycle animation.

Basically, walk cycles are very unfriendly to test animations - all the body needs to be animated, and the feed need to do a convincing walk, with something resembling ground contacts.


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corthew
post Feb 28 2012, 8:32 PM
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QUOTE (Ben_S @ Feb 28 2012, 12:57 PM) *
Basically, walk cycles are very unfriendly to test animations - all the body needs to be animated, and the feed need to do a convincing walk, with something resembling ground contacts.



But I've had it work with no upper body movement, (the santa mishap), and also with the straight leg through the leg walk, one attempt of each.

smile.gif I'm going to try to get both of those working just to see if that one detail was all it was.

Sadly for any Michael Jackson fans, if that IS what it is an accurate moonwalk will not be possible at this time. smile.gif


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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