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Youtube and Moviestorm music packs, copyright
 
kibishipaul
post Mar 6 2012, 2:56 AM
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Recently I've been posting my movies on Youtube and nearly everytime I am getting the 'matched third party content' warning for the music I'm using. As the music is always what I've bought from Moviestorm and I assumed to be coyright free and licensed for commercial use I cannot understand what the problem is. I've appealed some of these and using exactly the same music I've had the warning both revoked for one movie and enforced for another. According to each warning, the music belongs to a company called Duffnote. Is this the case? and is there anything that Moviestorm can do about this?

Advice appreciated.
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kibishipaul
post Mar 6 2012, 3:24 AM
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Actually made a mistake there. The company is Duffnote.
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lucindamc123
post Mar 6 2012, 3:36 AM
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I found them. They are a UK recording company but I didn't recognize any of the songs they have as any that are in the Moviestorm packs.


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Armanus
post Mar 6 2012, 4:17 AM
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If possible you might want to contact whoever made the music you bought from MS (I'm assuming Bob and Barn, but I know there are others) and let them know what is going on. If someone else is trying to make a claim on their music they would be in the best position to do something about it.

As far as the Beethoven thing, such music is in the public domain. A company can copyright a specific performance or interpretation that they have produced, or if they have created a new recognizable arrangement that is not standard to the original music, but they cannot claim on the music in general. So your kid playing at a recital, they don't have a legal leg to stand on (unless your kid was playing the emo disco grunge ska remix version of the Beethoven song that this company may hold copyright to).



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kibishipaul
post Mar 8 2012, 12:19 PM
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To recap, recently I have been posting my Jekyll and Hyde videos on Youtube and taking advantage of their monetize option (Placing ads within the movie). However, I've continuously received matched third party content warnings by the company Duffnote accompanied by the blocking of the ad sharing. Whereas I'm not bothered about any potential economic loss - my movies tend to get hits in the dozens rather than the millions! - I am puzzled as I was under the (mistaken?) impression that so long as the music was used with a Moviestorm made video we could sell them for distribution. After a troll through the forums, I found this comment from MS

"The main issue is not where you create the movie for us, it is what you do with movies that use the music. You own them for sale and distribution, but you cannot offer re-sale or re-distribution rights. "


Also, as suggested by several of you I contacted Duffnote. Here is their reply.

Dear Kibishipaul

The Sound Recording is controlled by our Company. The Composers and Creators of the music Bob and Barn have spoke with Moviestorm who assured them they acknowledge they are not giving away their rights for 3rd parties to benefit from Commercial Exploitation of this kind.

We are not looking to disable Ad Sharing. We are Monetizing any content we represent and as Creator of the Video Images this is shared with you (presuming this is part of the T&C's with Moviestorm).

My understanding is you have rights to upload the Sound Recordings as part of a Moviestorm project but you do not have rights to Monetize these Sound Recordings whilst the Original Copyright holders most definitely do!

Now as I said earlier, I am completely puzzled as to what commercial rights we do have regards movies made using music from Bob and Barn?

Perhaps someone from MS would like to clarify this issue for the 3rd parties who have purchased any Bob and Barn music packs?



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lucindamc123
post Mar 8 2012, 1:14 PM
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Just another reason I don't bother uploading to You Tube anymore. It isn't good for independent film makers the way it was when it started out because they cater to the movie studios, music companies, tv shows and advertising agencies so the independent film makers don't even get the views we used to get there. I know all the musicians whose music I use in my films so I do have the rights from them to use the music. Most of the musicians I know are friends of mine on Facebook (for instance, Daniel Stang, Jesse Pringle and Vice Romania) so if any of you are interested in contacting them for using their music, let me know and I will give you their names or if you see my movies you will see the credits for the music. However, when I am paid to make a video like I have been for some commercial videos, I pay the musicians too and the actors and the modders. And I compose music myself.


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kibishipaul
post Mar 8 2012, 1:32 PM
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Another message from Duffnote.

Our Company has no direct contact with Moviestorm but the creators we represent were told by Moviestorm to point any enquiries to them direct so they should be able to advise further following your initial communication.

My understanding from the creators is they never granted consent for royalty free use or gave away the Sound Recordings as "Library". They still own and control full rights on the works. However you do have permission to use and upload the Sound Recordings as part of a Moviestorm Video even though the Sound Recordings ownership remains with the creators.


So, do users of MS have the right to profit from any videos made using music from the Bob and Barn packs ? Comments from anyone at Moviestorm appreciated .................... Hello?
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writerly
post Mar 8 2012, 3:11 PM
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Perhaps adding a waiver (iE: "Purchaser of this pack has the legal right to use this material for projects containing Moviestorm animation etc. etc") to the music packs which could be forwarded to YouTube's legal weasels, or anyone else who questions it, would be useful to avoid this happening to the rest of us!
Regards,
C
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ms_amos
post Mar 8 2012, 3:14 PM
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Hi guys,
Sorry for the delayed response on this issue.
Unfortunately I don't have the answers that you need, but I have requested that someone look into the license details and get back to me or post the results here.
Please bear with us, I'll make sure another Moviestorm post comes soon.


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corthew
post Mar 8 2012, 4:11 PM
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I'm not familiar with the "bob and barn" music pack. Which one is it?


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ms_amos
post Mar 8 2012, 4:16 PM
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Hi again,
I have just spoken to our CEO about these license issues, and he is currently in talks with our music suppliers to discuss the finer details of the usage agreement.
If you are using the music for commercial purposes, or it has been identified in your online content, please contact our Director, Andrew Kennedy (andrewkennedy <at> moviestorm.co.uk) for more information, and he'll be able to offer advice based upon your individual situation.
Sorry I can't be more forthcoming about providing a "Yes or No" answer, but I'm sure Andrew can clear up any uncertainties on a case by case basis.


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rgr
post Mar 8 2012, 7:58 PM
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QUOTE (ms_amos @ Mar 8 2012, 04:16 PM) *
Hi again,
I have just spoken to our CEO about these license issues, and he is currently in talks with our music suppliers to discuss the finer details of the usage agreement.
If you are using the music for commercial purposes, or it has been identified in your online content, please contact our Director, Andrew Kennedy (andrewkennedy <at> moviestorm.co.uk) for more information, and he'll be able to offer advice based upon your individual situation.
Sorry I can't be more forthcoming about providing a "Yes or No" answer, but I'm sure Andrew can clear up any uncertainties on a case by case basis.

I thank you for moving this forward, but I must also point out that the marketplace currently still says this is royalty free music for use in moviestorm projects. Are you also looking to clear this up generally, including perhaps updating that language if need be? And perhaps offering refunds or swaps for anybody who interpreted the terms of the content pack (as currently written) to mean we could use it in films we intend to monetize, without paying royalties?

I don't mean to sound pushy as I know this is a sensitive subject, but having to deal with this on a case by case basis sounds tedious.

rgr
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kibishipaul
post Mar 9 2012, 9:15 AM
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QUOTE (rgr @ Mar 8 2012, 07:58 PM) *
I thank you for moving this forward, but I must also point out that the marketplace currently still says this is royalty free music for use in moviestorm projects. Are you also looking to clear this up generally, including perhaps updating that language if need be? And perhaps offering refunds or swaps for anybody who interpreted the terms of the content pack (as currently written) to mean we could use it in films we intend to monetize, without paying royalties?

I don't mean to sound pushy as I know this is a sensitive subject, but having to deal with this on a case by case basis sounds tedious.

rgr


I agree with rgr on this. Although I will be contacting Andrew Kennedy, this is really something that MS needs to clear up and not on a case by case basis.
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kkffoo
post Mar 9 2012, 9:45 AM
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I think it is Google's automated systems which allow them to thrive.
Most videos they target are probably abandoned and I've had the same kind of thing happen with a delightful firm called Orchard Music.
Before Google hid the youtube forum the place was littered with people complaining about being scammed by Orchard music and google appeared to do absolutely nothing about it.
Google's copyright complaints department gives the impression of being headed up by someone wielding a magic 8 ball.

AdminEdit: Changed phrasing slightly. Ben Sanders


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rgr
post Mar 9 2012, 3:16 PM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 9 2012, 09:45 AM) *
I think it is Google's automated systems which allow them to thrive.
Most videos they target are probably abandoned and I've had the same kind of thing happen with a delightful firm called Orchard Music.
Before Google hid the youtube forum the place was littered with people complaining about being scammed by Orchard music and google appeared to do absolutely nothing about it.
Google's copyright complaints department gives the impression of being headed up by someone wielding a magic 8 ball.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this case. According to Paul, Duffnote indeed claims to represent Bob and Barn and believe they have a legitimate claim regarding the Bob and Barn audio. That's what MS is apparently working out.

rgr

AdminEdit: Changed phrasing slightly in quote. Ben Sanders
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kkffoo
post Mar 9 2012, 4:07 PM
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...and Kibish's son's school concert? Bob and Barn and a school concert...no that pure fishing and fit with the profile of what youtube users were saying on fourm before it vanished...
People geting copyright notices for their own compositions and singing in the bath etc, or their dog howling.


My opinion, I am not a lawyer or a dentist.


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flashman
post Mar 9 2012, 6:30 PM
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Hello everybody

Apologies for not piping up sooner, but I have wanted to get the story straight before I said anything to avoid misleading you.
I have spoken at length to Bob and Barn, and we seem to have found common ground on the use of the music bought in the audio packs on our site, as regards to Moviestorm projects. They will be speaking to the appropriate people to try and agree an approach that will resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction, and most importantly from our perspective - yours.

As soon as we get to the resolution, I will inform you all without delay. In the meantime, I suggest you reply to any approaches with a stock answer of:
"I have purchased the commercial rights to use this audio in Moviestorm projects from the seller (Bob and Barn), and suggest that you contact them, or their representatives to resolve this issue."

Please also feel free to forward any correspondence to myself andrewkennedy@moviestorm.co.uk, so that I can pass it on to Bob and Barn, who are equally unaware of how this issue is being handled in the wider world.

Apologies for the confusion again.

Have a good weekend,
Andrew


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kibishipaul
post Mar 9 2012, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 9 2012, 04:07 PM) *
...and Kibish's son's school concert? Bob and Barn and a school concert...no that pure fishing and fit with the profile of what youtube users were saying on fourm before it vanished...
People geting copyright notices for their own compositions and singing in the bath etc, or their dog howling.


My opinion, I am not a lawyer or a dentist.


As it turned out, the school concert video was matched by a different company, not Bob and Barn, and I apologised for that mistake. As I had six of my movies all matched in a rush I made the erroneous assumption that this one was also targeted by B&B. It turned out to be a different company which I am pursuing for an answer. The others were all B&B though with the music coming from the Epic Adventures music pack.
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kkffoo
post Mar 12 2012, 9:49 AM
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Well done for sticking with this Kibish. (and moviestorm)
I get the feeling that the youtube site is seen as a digital feeding ground for these firms.
I bet even if this company is legit that Bob and Barn won't see much out of it.


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kkffoo
post Mar 15 2012, 8:46 AM
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Copyfraud and youtube

http://fairusetube.org/youtube-copyfraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud


this case sounds similar?
http://groups.google.com/a/googleproductfo...ers/MUwy20FlO78

I've put this topic on the list for the next expocast which is 1st April.


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