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Youtube and Moviestorm music packs, copyright
 
corthew
post Mar 15 2012, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 04:46 AM) *


Wow!

I'm glad they got that one worked out. They never would have though if no-one had pushed it.



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rgr
post Mar 15 2012, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 08:46 AM) *
Copyfraud and youtube

http://fairusetube.org/youtube-copyfraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud


this case sounds similar?
http://groups.google.com/a/googleproductfo...ers/MUwy20FlO78

I've put this topic on the list for the next expocast which is 1st April.

FWIW, I have dealt with Rumblefish on a supposed copyright claim and they were both responsive and reasonable (and they removed their claim). I'm not saying they always are or always will be, but they were both of those things when I had to deal with them.

Public pressure for folks to do the right thing is proving to be a useful tool in this area though, so more awareness is a good thing.
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kkffoo
post Mar 15 2012, 10:50 AM
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That's good to know RGR, though i can't help feeling their post on the google forum had a whiff of a protection racket about it...if you don't register your content id and share the revenue with us we'll take it all anyway..was how I read it.
I've had multiple id claims in my videos, some of them felt like plain fraud, others may or may not be legit...how can a single person keep up with all this?

The site I linked to above http://fairusetube.org/youtube-copyfraud had an interesting conclusion which I've quoted below.


QUOTE
Conclusion

While YouTube "ponders" implementing a solution, YouTube users must live with the knowledge that no video on YouTube is safe from being subject to an illegitimate copyright claim through the Content ID system. As it stands, YouTube presents an incredibly unfriendly environment for independent video producers seeking to establish a legitimate business based around online video. Even if a creator manages to navigate the minefield of American copyright law and produce videos that do not infringe on anyone's copyright, they still risk having their videos blocked or essentially stollen by false or fraudulent copyright claims by unethcial companies like the ones listed above--with no practical recourse from YouTube's dispute procedures. As it stands, if this does happen to you, your options are basically (1) complain really loudly on the YouTube help forums and hope a Google employee sees your post and rectifies the situation, (2) contact the claiming party directly and demand that they retract their claim (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't), or (3) delete the falsely claimed video from YouTube to keep the third party from profiting from it and host it on another video sharing site like Vimeo that doesn't have an automated copyright filter like YouTube.

With all of Google's talk about not being evil and fighting for ordinary Internet users, how did it come to this?



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rgr
post Mar 15 2012, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 10:50 AM) *
That's good to know RGR, though i can't help feeling their post on the google forum had a whiff of a protection racket about it...if you don't register your content id and share the revenue with us we'll take it all anyway..was how I read it.
I've had multiple id claims in my videos, some of them felt like plain fraud, others may or may not be legit...how can a single person keep up with all this?

The site I linked to above http://fairusetube.org/youtube-copyfraud had an interesting conclusion which I've quoted below.

Yes, the current situation is not good. Vimeo seems much friendlier to independent film makers, but I have no idea how/if one can monetize content there (I'm not monetizing any of my content so I never looked into it).

Looking forward to this show now! smile.gif

rgr
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lucindamc123
post Mar 15 2012, 2:31 PM
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Just took a look at YouTube as I have not been on there in forever. It has changed a lot. Now they sell movies to view like Netflix but YouTube costs more, like $3.99 a view. And they have a lot of free feature films too. So there is no spot now for independent filmmakers. You probably don't know this but a lot of those videos that go viral that look like they are made by ordinary people are really made by ad agencies and movie studios for promotion. They are phoney.


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andrewkennedy
post Mar 15 2012, 4:52 PM
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Hello all,

Barn has got back post-GDC, with the following response to the PRS / Duffynote / Bob and Barn / Moviestorm situation.

We actively encourage Moviestorm users to use and promote their movies. We have instructed the collection societies scanning for YouTube usage not to make claims against Moviestorm projects using the pack music, and if anyone is inappropriately approached by one of them, please state:

"The music falls under a previous commercial rights agreement, please contact the original composer for confirmation of the status of your claim."

If your projects are ever shown on TV or Film or similar, please let us know. As composers we are huge fans of your work, and take great pride in our music being used so creatively"

Bob and Barn / www.bobandbarn.com
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kkffoo
post Mar 15 2012, 5:22 PM
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I think the problem is that the youtube form doesn't allow you make that (or any other response) other than a narrow set of tick box choices which often don't apply.
Anyone else remember the choices you get?


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rgr
post Mar 15 2012, 9:33 PM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 05:22 PM) *
I think the problem is that the youtube form doesn't allow you make that (or any other response) other than a narrow set of tick box choices which often don't apply.
Anyone else remember the choices you get?

Last time I did this (which was recent) the choices were not good, and protected by many ominous warnings. I wound up literally calling the claim placer/company directly (as in on the phone) and that cleared it up.
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flashman
post Mar 23 2012, 5:09 PM
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Hello again all,

We apologise for the mix up regarding Bob and Barn's music packs. It was with best intentions that the 2nd party audio packs were made available in July 2009 under an agreement that we understand to mean that the music can be used by our users in their Moviestorm projects and included in films released for commercial gain, as per our 1st party content.
Bob and Barn have since engaged Duffnote to pursue royalty claims against their catalogue of music, including the contents of these packs, and Duffnote have quite correctly gone about their business. Due to the recent issues and comments, Duffnote have now suspended pursuing royalties against the content in question until the matter is resolved, but Bob and Barn would like to resume that process since the music has also been used on numerous YouTube videos as part of videogame soundtrack playlists from the game where the music was originally sourced. In anticipation of that, please be advised that any Moviestorm movies uploaded to YouTube will be automatically fingerprinted for broadcast monetization if it features Bob and Barn's music. They apologise for any confusion and suggest that current owners of the Bob and Barn music packs who are concerned about this should contact them for their full explanation and assistance in dealing with the matter.
Contact Bob or Barn at studio@bobandbarn.com

Having now determined that we are unable to sell their products as royalty free, to avoid any ongoing confusion, we will be removing the music packs from our marketplace, and making provision for their continued availability through us elsewhere, but under carefully redefined terms.


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Andrew Kennedy
MD, Moviestorm Ltd.
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corthew
post Mar 23 2012, 9:11 PM
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Is this issue why Youtube is disabling monetization on a video I've been reuploading trying to monetize?

Are they broad spectrum disabling it on Moviestorm videos?

I haven't used Bob and Barn in this one. I'm not even sure I have that pack unless the Scooby Doo style music is part of it.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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primaveranz
post Mar 24 2012, 11:21 AM
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Is it not weird then that the MS Facebook group has just posted a link to the music packs ?
Whoever " via Timely by Demandforce" is....


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"I have had the same problem with getting the wheels to rotate properly with animated cars. They have to be all the same size and round and that helps a bit." America's Top Modder.
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Armanus
post Mar 24 2012, 5:54 PM
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I believe the Scooby Doo-style music is indeed part of a Bob and Barn pack.

Will there be any consideration of compensation for those who bought any of the affected packs under the previous impression? I doubt I would have gotten them if they were not royalty-free.

Also, can we expect similar issues for the Earcom or Soundfactor Productions packs, or is the agreement on those more solid?


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kkffoo
post Mar 25 2012, 9:50 AM
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This seems somewhat unfortunate, not least for Moviestorm.


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urbanlamb
post Mar 26 2012, 6:35 AM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 08:46 AM) *
Copyfraud and youtube

http://fairusetube.org/youtube-copyfraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud


this case sounds similar?
http://groups.google.com/a/googleproductfo...ers/MUwy20FlO78

I've put this topic on the list for the next expocast which is 1st April.


err yeah i just saw this thread its copyfraud is a hudge issue most of my videos have been hit regardless of where the music/sounds came from even stuff I WROTE has been hit. I have had to pull down tons of videos and rerelease them under CCC . I spent about a week chasing down ioda or whatever they are which is a huge conglomerate for two videos that they have rejected claims of mismatched id content. The reality is that youtube since it was purchased by google has changed. Youtube at the moment has remained silent smile.gif

Anyhow not much you can do unless you have a lot of time on your hands and dont mind chasing down this company in a court room chances are your using public domain music (their favourite target) or CCC stuff also a favourite of theirs.

I myself am slowly moving off youtube onto blip tv and well i use vimeo. I use youtube because of the fact that everyone is used to it, but the reality is its fast becoming unusable if your not a big holywood company or recording studio or something.

GoDigital MG or ioda or whatever is the largest pain in the butt because they are rejecting the claims thereby locking down your video to further action they claim its just cause most of the claims are false.. most people have another theory based on the mumbo jumbo they had on websites (but since taken down) which is that they are in full knowledge of the fact the claims of content id mistmatch are valid but are milking the users videos for revenue. There is a large portion of the youtube community who believe that youtube is not just aware of it but is a part of it. Although that is tinfoil hat stuff and i am not a tinfoil hat person in this case because of the fact that youtube is completely ignoring what is going on and making very wierd excuses they probably are benefiting from it .

here is an example one of two i have not had chance to move to blip yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKWVV6WE-6s

i leave them up but i posted my HUGE list of mismatched videos on youtube customer support forums 2 weeks ago asking for action and the thread mysteriously disappeared lol.

here is a clear cut in your face example of copyfraud this is the proof just so your aware. I am taking this video down soon i have a few others to move lol this one is last as its for christmas and its not the christsmas season . Both pieces of music in the video were obtained from the public domain repository. I logged in two weeks ago to find 20 videos tagged by these guys. 2 were containing music i wrote myself. 2 were from musicians who dont use this company or have anything to do with them who I had an agreement with. The rest were all in the public domain..

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corthew
post Mar 26 2012, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Mar 24 2012, 01:54 PM) *
I believe the Scooby Doo-style music is indeed part of a Bob and Barn pack.



I never uploaded that one to youtube but I did use it in a mod demo for the body bag, due to curiosity about what kinds of theme music was available, after all the commotion over the Bob and Barn stuff.

I kinda want to get rid of content that has questionable legal rights so I do not inadvertently use it.

What about footsteps?

Ambient sounds?

I suspect YouTube is being "broad spectrum" with MS to avoid legal fallout, since I've heard nothing about a claim or anything related to the video in question.
Its my The Mayans were Right video.

But this still raises concerns for me.

I hope understandably so.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
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corthew
post Mar 26 2012, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (urbanlamb @ Mar 26 2012, 02:35 AM) *
i leave them up but i posted my HUGE list of mismatched videos on youtube customer support forums 2 weeks ago asking for action and the thread mysteriously disappeared lol.


If you do a search in the search bar at the top of the support forums for name you posted under it'll pull it up.

You can then go to it and post a reply and it'll pop back up to the front page.

I have not yet figured out the order of posts. New ones go to the front page but the dates are never consecutive even then.

It would be great if you could arrange them by "last post" but that isn't the case.

I feel sorry for the MS staff in this. It has to be aggravating as hell, especially since they have done nothing wrong.


--------------------
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.
Go to the top of the page
 
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urbanlamb
post Mar 26 2012, 4:25 PM
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QUOTE (kkffoo @ Mar 15 2012, 05:22 PM) *
I think the problem is that the youtube form doesn't allow you make that (or any other response) other than a narrow set of tick box choices which often don't apply.
Anyone else remember the choices you get?


they have updated the system recently. I just did a reupload to see if I could get the attention of this godigital group. I resubmited so I will see if youtube fixed this yet. However the collection societies are commiting copyfraud so the reality is that the problem still exists. These "3rd party" socieities are just taking advantage of the content id system to try to make money. It makes it a constant battle for the users of youtube. So unfortunately these instructions are not a solution. They will still tag them and still try to collect. Youtube has to take action against them unfortunately and remove any companies that abuse their content id system. However they are not. Since copyfraud is against the youtube tos I can only conclude that they are in fact in agreement with these guys to collect on videos like these for added income.. smile.gif

the reality is for many of us its just not worth the effort and its just time to go to another company and forget about youtube ..
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urbanlamb
post Mar 26 2012, 4:34 PM
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QUOTE (corthew @ Mar 26 2012, 11:03 AM) *
If you do a search in the search bar at the top of the support forums for name you posted under it'll pull it up.

You can then go to it and post a reply and it'll pop back up to the front page.

I have not yet figured out the order of posts. New ones go to the front page but the dates are never consecutive even then.

It would be great if you could arrange them by "last post" but that isn't the case.

I feel sorry for the MS staff in this. It has to be aggravating as hell, especially since they have done nothing wrong.


The post was removed lol I had it flagged on my watch list because i was hoping a youtube employee would respond. They did.. they deleted the thread or at least hid it from being visible by me smile.gif

Anyhow kinda done with youtube. They allow anyone to go onto their content id system it seems they dont seem to screen for legitimacy of any kind. Its a lack system ripe for abuse. Once godigital is dealt with they will be replaced by another company that decides to try the same thing. Its been like this for awhile now. The last entity was "the music publishing rights collecting society" lol a pure scram front. Godigital is pretty much as bad but have taken it one step farther. They are now zeroing in on royalty free sites and claiming for those videos as well. Youtube created a flawed system and are very slow to fix it.
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kkffoo
post Mar 26 2012, 6:03 PM
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Sounds like a gold rush and even the legit firms are having to behave in odd ways to defend themselves.
Got to agree with urbanlamb...I'm wondering if youtube worth the bother any more.


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kkffoo
post Mar 27 2012, 10:36 AM
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I'm wondering this has something to do with it;

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/0...closer-look.ars

Google play...I hadn't been too aware of google pushing media due to having a phone made from lego bricks, but I wonder if in order to make this work they are having to do deals with media producers which are indirectly leading to the copyfraud issues on youtube?
ie Leaning over backwards to accomodate big media firms and the small fish are jumping in to exploit weaknesses in the system, and the other firms are neding to act defensively and in the end small video producers get squeezed out.

The problem is...as I see it...that I'm geting less and less inclined to deal with google where I can avoid doing so, though avoiding them altogether just isn't possible.

Is it just me finding these developments somewhat worrying?


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