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Hideable/Tintable Mountains, Vote to get it implimented!
 
Hideable/Tintable Mountains
Should staff Impliment this into MS?
Yes, get it done in the next release! [ 46 ] ** [92.00%]
Not right now, but maybe in the future [ 4 ] ** [8.00%]
Please Don't. The mountains are GREAT! [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Total Votes: 50
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D.L. Watson
post Nov 9 2010, 11:32 PM
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Before you Read on, I'm aware that there is a small hack a user can do to make the mountains disappear. I'm aware there is some mods out there that help remove the mountains.

Nevertheless, this thread is about whether or not Moviestorm should implement the option into MS that will allow users to hide/tint the mountains that most filmmakers try to hide (without resorting to a hack or mod).

While some would argue that the build grid is a perfect size for avatars to walk on, I don't think its big enough when it comes to making exterior sets.

You end up trying to use primitives and or domes to hide the mountains which limits your build area.

And since Moviestorm has already shown users how to remove the mountains using a small hack, I'm asking all filmmakers to vote to convince them to add a option into MS.

So, what do you think? Vote above!
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Armanus
post Nov 9 2010, 11:54 PM
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I voted to implement, though I don't know how they would do it since the current sky textures stop at the edge of the mountains. I think they could just have the textures stop at the "horizon" which would fix it.

I also strongly support at least having the option to use a larger stage grid for making movies on. With large sets the current size is pretty limited and hard to work around.


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andy_price
post Nov 10 2010, 12:15 AM
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when doing outside work, the mountains do get in the way, and the grid is to small, I am at the moment trying to get an ocean horizon for my seaside mod, if the mountains wernt there and the grid reached the horizon, I could just use a ismple texture on the ground to simulate the sea.


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Chris Ollis
post Nov 10 2010, 7:43 AM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Nov 9 2010, 11:54 PM) *
I don't know how they would do it since the current sky textures stop at the edge of the mountains.


I don't think they do Armanus, that would be far more complicated to zigzag the sky texture!
Although maybe you're right and maybe that's why my request for the mountains to be removable/interchangeable with other mountains, cityscapes, fields etc etc etc has been overlooked for so many years wink.gif

Grid size I think does have some technical issues besides the obvious "people will make bigger sets which means really, really, really, really, really, really crap shadows because they should all know by now the quality of shadow is dependent on how many things need to be lit"


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kv
post Nov 10 2010, 7:56 AM
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I voted yes, I personally hate those mountains and spend a lot of my time trying to find ways to hide them!

More grid space is very important to me also as I find it very frustrating being so limited when trying to build outside sets. I can appreciate this could potentially cause issues with shadows so if it was not an official feature but maybe if a hack (could be to strong a word for it) for advanced users that would also be good.


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mcornetto
post Nov 10 2010, 8:04 AM
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I voted yes. I'm not fond of the mountains and I like to build big sets. But I don't think Chris is saying the size of the set matters, I think he's saying it's how many things are on the set that matters to shadows. Is that correct?

If it is purely due to size there shouldn't be any reason why you can't just calculate many shadow maps on a reasonably sized part of the set. I would find it hard to believe technically, if you couldn't tile multiple shadow maps. Or for that matter just calculate them then stick them together before you add them.

So, it would seem to me that the shadow quality is a function of the number of items and not the size of the set.


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Chris Ollis
post Nov 10 2010, 8:25 AM
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QUOTE (mcornetto @ Nov 10 2010, 08:04 AM) *
I voted yes. I'm not fond of the mountains and I like to build big sets. But I don't think Chris is saying the size of the set matters, I think he's saying it's how many things are on the set that matters to shadows. Is that correct?

If it is purely due to size there shouldn't be any reason why you can't just calculate many shadow maps on a reasonably sized part of the set. I would find it hard to believe technically, if you couldn't tile multiple shadow maps. Or for that matter just calculate them then stick them together before you add them.

So, it would seem to me that the shadow quality is a function of the number of items and not the size of the set.


No, we have one shadow map (think of it like a single texture projected on to the set), and that automatically applies to all objects on the set. so if you have a massive grid with one small object at either end, the shadow map will be stretched across them both resulting in horrible blotchy shadows in the same way pixels of a texture become stretched and distorted and blurred.

You can have loads of objects in a small space and that will appear to work fine.

I have suggested a user controlled shadow cube (define which area shadows apply to with a dummy object) but again, I'm still waiting on that wink.gif


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alteregotrip
post Nov 10 2010, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Nov 10 2010, 07:43 AM) *
.."and maybe that's why my request for the mountains to be removable/interchangeable with other mountains, cityscapes, fields etc etc etc has been overlooked for so many years".....


I like these ideas here that I have thought would be good but never heard them being expressed (then again, I am relatively new here)
.....

My own personal problem with the "limits" of the mountains and sky stuff is that, I do tend to take my personal builds to the edge.. just because I get carried away when I see everything in the shot that isn't even in there.. for some reason, its a window or a glimmer of light from the distance that utterly messes me up.. on the other hand.. if we could just have some green screen "mountains" (ones that can be covered in the green screen texture) that alone without doubt for me would make a huge different. With Tree's add texture add on I can blue screen or green screen the sky which is helpful but problematic due to the presence of the mountains..

Chris, if you do get this fantastic feature IN, please do make certain that these theoretical interchangeable features could be green-screen tinted. It would be really useful for me to have a shape of city I could create a completely different film up against.. in fact such cut outs would be seriously awesome and helpful.. even other forms and geological features.

BTW if the size of the set could be made smaller with such features, it would make my all too expansive world a little less problematic, shadow quality included. smile.gif


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alteregotrip
post Nov 10 2010, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Nov 10 2010, 08:25 AM) *
....I have suggested a user controlled shadow cube (define which area shadows apply to with a dummy object) but again, I'm still waiting on that wink.gif



Again, that sounds like a very good user feature.


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daleh
post Nov 10 2010, 12:56 PM
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What would be even better is a full sky dome!

I think theres a post somewhere where Julian says he has some kinda code for it, or something similar, but that so far its never been finnished or implemented?

In fact heres one of them Dynmaic Sky code

and another Dynamic Sky Code

But now having read that maybe that is something different, or would that have included the removal of the mountains and a more infinate horizon type thing that you get in games and such?

But i would be very much in favor of something to replace the green mountains, being able to choose a distant city or ocean or more realistic mountains backdrop would be great....
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Armanus
post Nov 10 2010, 8:37 PM
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QUOTE (Chris Ollis @ Nov 10 2010, 01:43 AM) *
I don't think they do Armanus, that would be far more complicated to zigzag the sky texture!
Although maybe you're right and maybe that's why my request for the mountains to be removable/interchangeable with other mountains, cityscapes, fields etc etc etc has been overlooked for so many years wink.gif

Grid size I think does have some technical issues besides the obvious "people will make bigger sets which means really, really, really, really, really, really crap shadows because they should all know by now the quality of shadow is dependent on how many things need to be lit"


LOL

No it doesn't zig zag, but it does stop well short of the horizon. I've noticed when using the hack to remove the mountains that the ground past the grid is black, and it is white between the horizon and the edge of the sky texture, presumably where the mountains are.

Anyhoo, I move to have your request pushed through. There. Make it so wink.gif


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aaronandrews112
post Nov 15 2010, 9:46 AM
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hey dude...


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MikeLyons
post Nov 15 2010, 10:47 PM
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Personally, I would like to see the mountains removed altogether, since they aren't all that useful, and instead give us the ability to add mountains as a backdrop effect on the sky (not just a graphic nearby on a backdrop primitive, but actually be able to project the appearance of mountains in the distance, maybe as a layer in front of the sky.

In fact, how about the ability to have a graphic as a layer in the far background, that supports transparency.... that way we can have mountains, a cityscape, or anything else that isn't a simple rectangle, and have the sky show through?
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AngriBuddhist
post Nov 19 2010, 1:43 PM
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I'm sure that someone could dig up the old "hide the mountains" hack. It's been posted in the forums a few times. As to the grid size...you'll need to use the hide mountain hack and understand that your performance will take a hit...

1. Use Mountain hack.
2. Create and save a new movie.
3. Close MS.
4. Go to USERNAME\Moviestorm\Movies, open your movies' folder, and use Notepad to open the .mscope file.

Hint: The MS grid is 50x50.

5. SAVE the .mscope.
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lucindamc123
post Nov 19 2010, 2:29 PM
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Here is a recent thread I started on removing mountains. And it doesn't interfere with the operation of the program at all. Runs the same whether you have mountains or hide them.

http://www.moviestorm.co.uk/forums/index.p...;showtopic=9939

I actually posted all this in the other thread DL wrote but everyone pooh poohed what I said because they wanted Moviestorm to do this, not use a hack. LOL. Anyway I private messaged a lot of people on how to do this. And I also posted the text file in another thread where someone asked me about this. I have used this for years. Wouldn't make movies any other way. the reason the message has a link to my terrain.rar file which can be downloaded at

http://lucindamc123.com/terrain.rar

is that this mod not only contains this text file and instructions on how to do this but it also has sky domes and backdrops and terrains that help to cover any areas between the sky and the set. I also included a very large grid that you can use to place on your set so you can get everything at the same level on the set.

I am wondering if making the grid larger will allow us to have the puppets walk on the grid no matter what the size. In the older version of Moviestorm if you had a prop like a ground flat plane that was walkable, your puppet could walk anywhere on the set outside of the grid. With 1.4 though they took out this feature.


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Armanus
post Nov 19 2010, 2:57 PM
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QUOTE (AngriBuddhist @ Nov 19 2010, 07:43 AM) *
I'm sure that someone could dig up the old "hide the mountains" hack. It's been posted in the forums a few times. As to the grid size...you'll need to use the hide mountain hack and understand that your performance will take a hit...

1. Use Mountain hack.
2. Create and save a new movie.
3. Close MS.
4. Go to USERNAME\Moviestorm\Movies, open your movies' folder, and use Notepad to open the .mscope file.

Hint: The MS grid is 50x50.

5. SAVE the .mscope.


Are you saying you can hack the grid size?


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lucindamc123
post Nov 19 2010, 3:30 PM
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QUOTE (Armanus @ Nov 19 2010, 02:57 PM) *
Are you saying you can hack the grid size?


I just tried it and it did not work. I got a bug error when I opened the movie again after changing the mscope file and the mscope bak file. Oh it also didn't work if I just changed the mscope file and not the mscope bak file. Do we need to change the ceiling grid size too?

I wonder if it is a problem with the map files.


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D.L. Watson
post Nov 20 2010, 9:50 AM
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Again, I will re-iterate.

THIS IS ABOUT HAVING MOVIESTORM MAKE THIS OFFICIALLY HAPPEN.

If there is a hack that a user can do to remove mountains, then it shouldn't be that hard for Moviestorm to just make it work and maybe add a few features to their software and our advantage.

Why should a user have to HACK a text file in MS that will continually be overwritten in new updates to achieve this?

Why should a user have to use more polygons to cover up ugly and unnecessary polygons at the users system expense?

If the grid size cant be made bigger, fine! But at least with the mountains gone, you'll have more space to add set pieces, and with the FREE NAV-MESH ADDON PACK I offer, you can use it to extend your actors beyond the grid.

Nobody is being a poopy head. No one is being negative here.

This is honest, direct, communication with the Moviestorm staff to say...HEY - WE LOVE MOVIESTORM AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'D LIKE TO SEE IMPROVED!!!

So keep making votes people!
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kv
post Nov 20 2010, 2:09 PM
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I absolutely agree DL, a hack should not be necassary to remove those awful mountains, if anything those things are probably wasting resources, so to have either an option to remove those mountains within moviestorm or a template that you can choose in moviestorm without mountains would be good too.


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lucindamc123
post Nov 20 2010, 7:28 PM
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I don't think the nav mesh works beyond the grid as far as having the puppets be able to walk on it. But if anyone else has had success with this, let me know. The nav mesh made my program crash so I didn't use them too much. As far as Moviestorm making it an option to remove the mountains, that is in a sense what they did when they gave us the information (code) on how to do this and I passed it on to other people.

They may not be able to make this a function with the software to have a movie with or without the mountains. With the programming it may not be possible. Probably because it requires the change in the code that I told people about and that probably can't be done automatically but has to be done manually. As far as having the program without the mountains at all and a larger grid, they said at one time for some reason the grid could not be made larger. I think it is for the same reason we can't yet have resizable puppets. And when you have a set without the mountains, there is a large white area without a grid which might be confusing for new users. I cover the white area with low poly ground mods (they have like 2 faces) which I made if I need them or use backdrops. The white area turns black when you render your movie so you really don't have to do too much as far as the background.

The hack to make the grid larger does not work in 1.4. I tried and tried to get it to work and I just get a bug error.


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