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Skeletons and puppets for MilkShape 3D (or FragMOTION)


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#1 jamoram62

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:19 AM

For all of you modders out there.

 

 

Version: 20170119.02

 

Skeletons and puppets for modding with MilkShape 3D or FragMOTION. Not suitable for use with 3ds MAX.

Contents:

* Skeletons:
    Female
    Male
    
* Puppets every model includes:
    - Skeleton (female or male), in default pose (status: IDLE)
    - Meshes, with no material assigned
    - Except of the Idle pose: animation with only one frame in a specific pose, for building new animations
      based on it.

    The poses included so far are these:
        - Idle pose: for general use. NOTE: the one to be used for creating/modifying gesture animations
        - Kneel both
        - Lay down on floor
        - Lean against wall (back, left & right)
        - Sit down on floor
        - Sit Down in Chair
        - Sit in Low Chair
        

INITIAL STATES
--------------
For the correct definition of the new transitions in the StateMachine file, you must specify those initial states for each pose:

Pose                    Initial State
----------------        --------------
Idle                    IDLE
Kneel both                KNEEL
Lay down on floor        LYING_ON_FLOOR
Lean against wall back    Lean_Back
Lean against wall LH    Lean_Left
Lean against wall RH    Lean_Right
Sit down on floor        SITTING_ON_FLOOR
Sit Down (in chair)        SITTING
Sit in Low Chair        SITTING_LOW

 

Download from: https://drive.google...MWppN3NDT3FFSFk

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#2 jamoram62

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 04:44 PM

Updated with new base poses included:

        - Kneel both
        - Lay down on floor
        - Lean against wall (back, left & right)
        - Sit down on floor
        - Sit in Low Chair


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#3 primaveranz

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 05:03 AM

Thanks for those Jamoram, I opened the Male - Idle Pose puppet in Milkshape and clicked on Animation , and the puppet instantly deformed slightly. That brought back memories, but of what I can't quite remember  ;)

 

I'm guessing this was why you, Nahton (and even I at one stage!) used Fragmotion to create the animations. It was all so long ago .... ;)


"If we only use 1/3 of our brain, what's the other 1/3 for?"


#4 jamoram62

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:27 AM

Thanks for those Jamoram, I opened the Male - Idle Pose puppet in Milkshape and clicked on Animation , and the puppet instantly deformed slightly. That brought back memories, but of what I can't quite remember   ;)

 

I'm guessing this was why you, Nahton (and even I at one stage!) used Fragmotion to create the animations. It was all so long ago .... ;)

 

That's strange, indeed. In fact that one and the female's idle pose are the only ones I haven't hacked: actually they were those created (by Reacher, if memory serves me well) for their use with Milkshape, and I haven't modified them in any way; they're dated 2011/02/19, aren't they?  BTW the same happens with every pose I open with Milkshape, both versions 1.8.4 and 1.8.5 beta 2. No distortion is observed when opening and animating with FragMotion, though. And my experience animating puppets directly on Milkshape is quite limited since I switched to FragMotion pretty soon, though I think I saw this effect back then.

 

Furthermore, in the process of creating the various poses, at first I proceeded this way:

1) Using Milkshape 1.8.5 beta 2:

  1.1. Load the puppet in idle pose

  1.2. Import the animation (.caf file) from Moviestorm's installed content packages

  1.3. Save to a new .ms3d file

 

2) Using FragMotion:

  2.1. Load ther previously saved ms3d file

  2.2. Run the animation included and position the cursor to the last frame

  2.3. Export the pose to a FragMotion file

  2.4. Open the new pose file and rotate the full model 90 degrees around the X axis and the coordinate origin (you know, the issue with the axis orientation in Milkshape)

  2.5. Save the correctly oriented pose and export to Milkshape

 

Well, after going thru all this process, I realized to my disappointment that the puppet was somehow distorted, sometimes to a very noticeable degree. Going backwards, I verified that the distortion was already present in the step 1.2, ie just after importing the .caf animation file.

 

So I had to devise a new procedure:

0) Create a full Cal3D model:

   0.1) Convert .caf files version 0.13 back to version 0.11

   0.2) Create the .cfg Cal3D file including the skeleton, meshes and animation

 

1) Using Misfit:

  1.1. Import the Cal3D model

  1.2. Export to a Milkshape model file

 

2) Using FragMotion:

  2.1. Load ther previously saved ms3d file

  2.2. Run the animation included and position the cursor to the last frame

  2.3. Export the pose to:

           - a FragMotion file

           - a Milkshape file

 

 

Please note that, when importing thru Misfit, no reorientation is required at all! Also, the puppet in the poses created this way are only lightly distorted in the worst of the cases, in a far lesser degree than those rendered by the first procedure described.

 

Anyway I'll keep researching on this subject.


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#5 jamoram62

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:13 AM

A new version has been uploaded, including in the README file a list of the machine animation initial states to be specified when defining the new animations created from the poses included, ie:

 

 

Pose                    Initial State
----------------        --------------
Idle                    IDLE
Kneel both                KNEEL
Lay down on floor        LYING_ON_FLOOR
Lean against wall back    Lean_Back
Lean against wall LH    Lean_Left
Lean against wall RH    Lean_Right
Sit down on floor        SITTING_ON_FLOOR
Sitting (chair)            SITTING
Sit in Low Chair        SITTING_LOW

 

 

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#6 jamoram62

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 10:00 AM

WARNING: poses other than Idle don't work at all! Apparently there is a serious problem with them that have slipped unnoticed until tested under Moviestorm, so until fixed, I've removed the link to the archive.

 

This is most embarrasing and should have tested it better before publishing, not assuming that what looked to be right was actually right. My apologies.

 

So far, the only way that's working for me to create a new animation from a pose other than IDLE goes as follows :

 

1) Milkshape 3D 1.8.5

1.1. Load the puppet in the idle pose

1.2. Import the animation (.caf) for the transition to the new state (pose)

 

2) FragMotion:

2.1. Copy the last frame of the animation to the first frame of the new animation we're going to create.
       You may now delete the animation previously imported, if it bothers you.

2.2. At this point, the puppet is apparently oriented the wrong way, so by using the Skeletal Anim Widget, select the root bone and rotate it 90 degrees around the X axis.
You may also, if it fits you, move (translate) the root bone so the puppet is touching the X-Y plane (floor); if so, before exporting remember to disable/delete this key! Otherwise, when performing the animation in Moviestorm, the puppet will teleport for no apparent reason :)

2.3. Do your animating work

2.4. Save and export to MilkShape, and then export to Cal3D, define the new machine states, transitions, verbs if needed, and so on (not for gestures).

 

 

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#7 jamoram62

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:54 PM

After many tests and some thinking my conclusion is that the approach implemented in the current version of this package can't work, since the animations created from the new poses are based in a skeleton different from the skeletons used by Moviestorm. Period. As obvious it was, I failed to see it.

 

Ashamed but not beaten, since I've found a new approach to same goal. I'm in the process of recreating everything all over again. Every new "pose" (other than IDLE) will include:

- The puppet (skeleton and meshes) in a Idle default pose

- An animation with just one frame with the new pose.

 

So the modder can start working on his animation from this first frame.


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM


#8 Nahton

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:29 PM

What if you brought all the CAL3D files into Misfit including the default MovieStorm skeleton and used that skeleton to work with?

I'm not sure why the skeleton you used didn't work for threes different state poses if it worked for idle.

Is it possible the state machine requires a mannual edit as well?

#9 jamoram62

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:55 PM

What if you brought all the CAL3D files into Misfit including the default MovieStorm skeleton and used that skeleton to work with?

I'm not sure why the skeleton you used didn't work for threes different state poses if it worked for idle.

Is it possible the state machine requires a mannual edit as well?

 

Yes, that's what I've done and the way to go. In fact, the only fully working procedure to import from the original .caf files implies importing thru Misfit, by using the default skeleton (idle). Here you are an example of the Cal3D model for importing into Misfit: https://drive.google...WEdrcnVwVXB3TW8

 

 

What I did and made all the business going snafu was that I used a skeleton with a modified default pose different of that of Moviestorm (again, MS refers every animation to this skeleton in the idle pose); so, it appears to work like a charm both in FragMotion and Milkshape, but in fact the animations were built on the wrong pose. So when Moviestorm performed the animation, the victim character suffered a very painfully looking bout of boneitis.

 

 

Well, I think I've got the things fixed now and have uploaded a new version. The README file states:

 

 

Skeletons and puppets for modding with MilkShape 3D or FragMOTION. Not suitable for use with 3ds MAX.

Version: 20170119.02

Contents:

* Skeletons
    Female
    Male
    
* Puppets: every model includes:
    - Skeleton (female or male), in default pose (status: IDLE)
    - Meshes, with no material assigned
    - (Except of the Idle pose): animation with only one frame in a specific pose, for building new animations
      based on it.

    The poses included so far are these:
        - Idle pose: for general use. NOTE: the one to be used for creating/modifying gesture animations
        - Kneel both
        - Lay down on floor
        - Lean against wall (back, left & right)
        - Sit down on floor
        - Sit Down in Chair
        - Sit in Low Chair
        

INITIAL STATES
--------------
For the correct definition of the new transitions in the StateMachine file, you must specify those initial states for each pose:

Pose                    Initial State
----------------        --------------
Idle                    IDLE
Kneel both                KNEEL
Lay down on floor        LYING_ON_FLOOR
Lean against wall back    Lean_Back
Lean against wall LH    Lean_Left
Lean against wall RH    Lean_Right
Sit down on floor        SITTING_ON_FLOOR
Sit Down (in chair)        SITTING
Sit in Low Chair        SITTING_LOW

 

BTW, the link for downloading is the same than before, ie, https://drive.google...MWppN3NDT3FFSFk

 

 

And if you're particularly interested, this is link to all the stuff related: https://drive.google...dFJRdGp5b1oxaVk

 

 


ars longa vita brevis - Hippocrates (attributed)
 
If you want to tell jokes then use Muvizu; if you want to make 'Movies', use iClone; but if you want to tell stories, use Moviestorm - PrimaveraNZ
 
Shared addons & stuff for Moviestorm: https://drive.google...aTNsSFBuN0sxZHM





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