Jump to content


Photo

Rysto's Workshop


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 09:37 AM

Hello, I am Rysto! I just uploaded Moviestorm on May 21st!
I created this thread to show the creations I am making with this fabulous program that shows much promise!
I will start by displaying my computer specs:

Toshiba Centrino Laptop
1016 MB Ram
92 GB available on Hard Disk with just over 60GB free
Video Card: Mobile Intel 915GM/GMS, 910 GML Express
and I am using a wireless 3-wheel mouse.


If I am missing something tell me smile.gif I am not computer component savy. smile.gif

In this thread I will show short films of tests I have done, problems I find and neat discoveries.

I am posting my Moviestorm films on blip tv at the following link:

http://rysto.blip.tv/

A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#2 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:15 AM

Moviestorm Project #1
50 secs

I've been playing with this program for 12 hours straight since I uploaded it. I've released it here: http://rysto.blip.tv/file/237176/

The first scene is of three trees moving away. The thing that made me shoot this was the fact that they are the same prop! If you Right-click the prop(?) you get the "SCALE" option which allows you shrink or enlarge the prop! NEAT! This is awesome for making like those "Godzilla" or other giant movies and the like.
UNFORTUNATELY this does NOT work on all props(i.e. the cars). Why? I think this should apply to every prop regardless whether or not it makes "sense". A toy car anyone?
At the end of this shot you'll notice the large pawn object. I left that in because I could NOT paint the base of it, it stayed white.
Other dressing notes:
The "water" is nothing more than blue colored carpet.
We need a multiple placement of props option! I gave up finishing my fence because of it taking so long to select then re-spin.
It took me forever to figure out how to turn objects and the like at the end of this post I will leave a quickie with button tips. smile.gif

The next scene is myself and Mr. Itch, my good friend who will be assisting me as my personal stuntman. I call him "B" because we are so close.
Well it took me forever to figure out how to place puppets and then wrangle the cameras to do what I needed. It was ALOT of trial and error and I am still not exactly certain how I accomplished the camera feats so I can't go into to much detail yet. But I do have some notes:

1---Why can't Rysto just pick up the gun prop? He has to draw from back or draw from front. It doesn't look smooth.
2---This may sound strange but I think it has merit. Characters should be able to use ANY prop as a weapon or the like. Pick up the car and hit or throw it at B? Pick up a telephone pole and hit B? That would be great for superhero films and the like. It may "look" strange. But with clever editing and camera work, it would be a great addition.
3---Camera editing is HARD! Beta I understand but I came up with an idea and a couple questions.
A---Will there be stop and slow motion camera effects?
B---And the dreaded circle the camera around something. Very hard to do currently without it looking blocky or choppy. So how about an arcing option? Say you click on the camera's "target" and an arc appears around the target. This arc can be stretched larger and smaller with the mouse. And when satisfactory you select and the camera will follow this arc? Add some linking options also; you can get a full circle too.

The shooting sequence bothered me. Why does Rysto aim away from his target, B, when he fires, then bring it back to target?
The weird flickers occured when I accessed other programs on my computer(i.e. internet)while it was filming the scene.

Discoveries
To place a "puppet"(character): Left-click on his portrait then right-click where you want him placed on the set.
Spin props: Hold CTRL along with the left-click

It may not be new to most of you but the new beta testers may get something out of it... wink.gif

PLEASE COMMENT AND/OR ADVISE!!! smile.gif

A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#3 reptor7

reptor7

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 1299 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:25 AM

Wise guy, eh? I think my specs are better than yours!

*looks at computer and sees*

HP Pavilion
Pentium 4 2.5ghz (I guess single core)
512 ram
Nvidia FX 5200
60gb HD with 20 free
Age: 4 yrs (computer, not me)

Ack! Nice system you have! Mine can just barely run Moviestorm, but it does, so yours will handle it great. I need to beef up my ram.

Seen your test movie. Look'n good!

#4 kkffoo

kkffoo

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 3288 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 01:19 PM

It's great to see you get stuck into the program Rysto, great voice too so look forward to what yu do next.

#5 matt

matt

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 956 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 04:25 PM

(Rysto)
1---Why can't Rysto just pick up the gun prop? He has to draw from back or draw from front. It doesn't look smooth.
2---This may sound strange but I think it has merit. Characters should be able to use ANY prop as a weapon or the like. Pick up the car and hit or throw it at B? Pick up a telephone pole and hit B? That would be great for superhero films and the like. It may "look" strange. But with clever editing and camera work, it would be a great addition.
3---Camera editing is HARD! Beta I understand but I came up with an idea and a couple questions.
A---Will there be stop and slow motion camera effects?
B---And the dreaded circle the camera around something. Very hard to do currently without it looking blocky or choppy. So how about an arcing option? Say you click on the camera's "target" and an arc appears around the target. This arc can be stretched larger and smaller with the mouse. And when satisfactory you select and the camera will follow this arc? Add some linking options also; you can get a full circle too.

The shooting sequence bothered me. Why does Rysto aim away from his target, B, when he fires, then bring it back to target?
The weird flickers occured when I accessed other programs on my computer(i.e. internet)while it was filming the scene.


Fair comments.

1. We're working on getting the pickups sorted. It's not as easy as it looks, unfortunately. Most games get away with having a character simply have a prop pop into their hand, but that doesn't look right in a movie, so we're trying to do something more natural.
2. That would be good, but it's going to take us some time.
3A - yes, eventually.
3B - absolutely, yes, we're ging to get camera movement smoother and allow you to create arcs more easily.
Aiming away - we've fixed this.
Flickers - yes, there's nothing we can do about this. While you're rendering, don't do anything else. It's also a good idea to disable anything which is likely to pop windows up on your screen, such as email or IM notifications.
Scaling - we're going to make more of the props scalable. We can't make them all scalable right now because it messes up the animations, but we're working on a solution that will address this.

Very useful feedback, thanks, Rysto.
Matt Kelland
Moviestorm Founder

#6 mrjoyce

mrjoyce

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 586 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:04 PM

Very informative video. If you play around with the Modder's Workshop, once you pick a prop - like a car - and you can select the Usage Panel. Assign scaleability to it. I haven't tried all the props, but items like chairs and the like also scale well. With outside edting programs a filmmaker could put together an overscale set and achieve a look like the 1930's Laurel and Hardy film "Brats". Making it possible to have kid size actors in the same scene with Adults.
"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations" - Orson Welles

Pineapple Pictures
http://pinechunks.blogspot.com/

#7 matt

matt

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 956 posts

Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:43 PM

True. You can scale the props right now in the modder's workshop. Just don't expect them to work 100% right if you expect them to do anything more than just be set dressing.
Matt Kelland
Moviestorm Founder

#8 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:12 AM

Moviestorm Project #2
1:30

This project began right after uploading the new 1.4 patch! But all of my puppets lost the ability to move; instead they slid around the set. sad.gif I turned off the hardware skinning and they went back to their normal movements. Yeah!

Well in this project I thought I would test the animation engine. I put a lot of characters in the scene and had them do several gestures and animations at the same time. I even intentionally left the ceiling out just so the computer would have to draw more! Ha ha! :twisted:

Well I was pleasantly surprised! I didn't encounter any expected slowdown, very nice!

I had nine(9) puppets on set all doing various things. The film I created is here:
http://blip.tv/file/238281
1:30

It's just one scene but I used three different cameras. No voice-overs this time however.

Things I noticed:

1---Well using this many puppets I was starting to get confused which was which. Perhaps a white highlight around a puppet, standing on the set, when they are selected? It would make it easier for working with scenes with lots of extras.
2---I miss not being able to use the arrow keys to move around on the screen. sad.gif I would love to see those buttons turned on! Not for just camera movement mind you but just moving around the set. Plus if you hold the CTRL or ALT keys along with the arrows you could accomplish elevatoin and rotation during camera work too.
All the button clicks and mouse movement makes it a difficult time.
3---When I was done I clicked on the filming icon at the top of the screen.

I thought it would render all three cameras for me. But it did not. Instead I had audio but the whole screen was white for the entire duration. I had to go into each camera individually and render them there.
Plus I accidently clicked on it again after it was done and it started re-rendering. Expected sure, but it went ahead and overwrote the file. Why not a warning or an adjusted filename?
4---I like being able to adjust the timing of the characters actions in the timeline at the bottom of the screen. Just left click on an action and you can slide back and forth. Unfortunately it's only one character at a time so far as I can tell. Switching back and forth between the characters involved just to get them lined right got frustrating.
I was doing this for the "girl's fight" and the "kiss then shot" routines. This would definately need to be improved, especially in epic battles and shoot outs are just a couple scenarios I can think of off hand.
5---When I was painting the walls I had a hard time seeing if I had selected the pattern I wanted. All the icons are surrounded by white and the highlight is only a slightly brighter white. Very hard to see. Another color or icon highlight would be nice.
Plus I think it would be nice to be able to paint only part of any particular wall/floor/whatever too. Blood splatters, graffiti come to mind. Perhaps something similar to paint with a color bar and brushes?
6---Prop placing is a little more friendly I noticed. smile.gif Plus the demolition tool has been expanded to include prop movement! Thanks. I still would like to be able to place multiple props in a row without having to re-select them all the time. But I already that's being worked on. smile.gif

This one was fun and gave me an idea what to do for my next project. Poor B... :twisted: .

Summary*:
1---Puppet Confusion
2---Camera/Set View Movement
3---Rendering(Filming) Overwrite
4---Character Timing in Timeline
5---Wall painting
6---Prop Placement

*I'm going to include summaries for those that like to quote smile.gif

Dicoveries

Left Click character actions in the timeline and move left or right to adjust their actions.
Right Click character actions in the timeline for further tweeking!

As always, COMMENTS WELCOME!
A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#9 kkffoo

kkffoo

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 3288 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:25 AM

Good experiment Rysto.

Tom has just posted a way of creating cutouts from simple props

http://www.moviestor...s/list/487.page

So that should help with wall stains (using posters or backdrops).
Floor posters are promised later I believe, but we can modify the floor tiles.

I would like more keyboard shortcuts also.

It was amazing to hear the in-built sound, I keep forgeting it is there as vegas ignores the audio part of the MS renders.


#10 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:34 AM

(kkffoo)
It was amazing to hear the in-built sound, I keep forgeting it is there as vegas ignores the audio part of the MS renders.

My Window's Movie Maker is the only editing tool I have that won't drop the audio or reduce the video quality. Plus it's skittish and crashes alot. So my editing options are limited currently. sad.gif
But I agree, I love the sound effects and am impressed with the voice over recording system in-game too.

Thanks for the response!
A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#11 mrjoyce

mrjoyce

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 586 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:53 AM

(kkffoo)
Floor posters are promised later I believe, but we can modify the floor tiles.


Although I haven't tried the alpha treatment per Tom's tutorial, I know you can take the A4 or A5 paper props and apply the scability effect to them in the Usage Panel in the Modder's Workshop. I've done it to create a Newspaper mod. I imagine that Tom's Alpha effects could also be applied to the A4 or A5 papers and they can be placed on the floor or any horizontal surface.

Thanks for the link Kkffoo.

And very interesting test Rysto. I imagine the number of animated puppets can be endless.
"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations" - Orson Welles

Pineapple Pictures
http://pinechunks.blogspot.com/

#12 Cruleworld

Cruleworld

    Critically acclaimed

  • Pioneers
  • 222 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 03:18 PM

it would be nice also to have a line for each actor on the set on the time line that way you know who is doing what when.

#13 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 May 2007 - 10:38 PM

Moviestorm Project #3
1:11
Found here:
http://blip.tv/file/238941

English voice overs included by myself.
This one is pretty close to being a stand alone movie rather than a project...wink.gif

In this one myself and Mr. Itch, my good friend B, are about to have a no holds barred fight on my front lawn. But I have a surprise planned for him.

In this one I tried to maximize the number of actions and gestures on screen at the same time.
Things I noticed:

1---At one point during setting up my scene, my mouse freaked out and wouldn't respond. But the camera was still moving! When it stopped I had no idea where I was on the set, the screen was completely white! After a few minutes I discovered the camera was pointing straight up towards the sky!
I think a hot key that centers you at the center of the set would be useful. Especially considering the size of these sets.
2---When setting up the actions of the puppets in the fight scene, the program AUTOMATICALLY plays the sequence after you place it. What I mean is if you tell Puppet A to move to X. The program performs that action. It got annoying trying to stop the process just so I could add another sequence or just edit the sequence I created.
For example I wanted my puppets to run to confront B. But the move commands default is walk. So I had to stop the sequence from playing out just so I could edit it and tell them to run instead.
I don't think the playout is necessary. Plus if I add another command it should automatically add it at the end of his sequence. I shouldn't have to slide the timeline bar to the end just for this to work.
3---I had my attackers all hiding behind the wall. So as I completed each puppets actions, I had to select the actor, move over to where they were all standing, and then start that new puppets action sequence.
Perhaps when double clicking a puppet from the list, your view centers on that character? That would be easier too for large sets with many extras.
4---I had some phantom icons appear(see pic below) around one of my puppets. I had deleted some actions but these icons remained on the screen. And when selected it just showed the portrait of whatever puppet was selected at the time and no options were displayed.
This may be related to removing the punching interaction. I removed it from one of the other puppets but B's "response" was still left on screen. It also may explain his moving around on set. B was supposed to remain stationary for the whole scene!
Phantom Images

5---I am starting to get the hang of working with gestures plus I thought of a few things to make it run smoother.
Gestures

In the gesture adding menu you can select a gesture from the timeline and move it left and right down the timeline by holding the left mouse button. Very nice. But you can't tell where on the gesture to grab! If you grab on the left or right side of it, you expand or contract the sequence. Grabbing in the middle allows you to move it across the timeline. Only through trial and error can you find the right spot.
Plus moving down the Master Time Line is difficult. There should be arrows advancing the timeline(circled in red) so you can move back and forth easier.
On a side note. While doing the gun shooting sequence I used ALOT of gun shooting. I was having a hard time lining them up next to each other(TIME CONSUMING). I found the Utilities button(written in red on pic) opens up an option called "CLOSE UP GAPS". Clicking this moves all gestures that you have been adjusting snug against each other! Very nice. Unfortunately it was not available on all gesturing actions. sad.gif That would be nice to have on the rest of them too.
Another thing similar too adding movements for puppets. When you add multiple gestures you have to adjust the timeline bar manually otherwise they pile up on top of each other. I think these should be automatically added to the end of the previously selected gesture also.
6---I wanted one of my puppets to run up and start punching B. I selected the punching action but the puppet only walked up there. So I right-clicked the sequence and edited the Gait up to run. Unfortunately he STILL walked over. I got around this by having him run to B then creating a whole new sequence just to punch.
Plus only one beating could occur at a time. Multiple people trying to punch him just started overlapping each other and characters started merging into one another. Very messy.
7---The bikini lady's face, under the tree, "freaks" out a little bit graphically at the end of the film.

Summary:
1---Getting lost on set
2---Auto-playing puppet sequences
3---Centering on puppets?
4---Phantom Icons
5---Gestures
6---Puppet actions AND movement
7---Graphic weird

Discoveries:

CLOSE UP GAPS---An option in gestures under the Utility menu. This automatically aligns all gestures snuggly against each other. Not available for all gestures but I know it is there for the gun.
Adjusting Puppet Speed---If you right click a puppets movement sequence it brings up the gait menu. Here you can adjust the puppets speed AND style of movement!

A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#14 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 07:33 PM

Some buggy things I've found

Phantom Thumbnails

When sliding the mouse across the props, thumbnails sometimes don't disappear when unselected. This results in several fake thumbnails images being left on the screen.


Why can't I move the prop?

I had just placed a phone booth and was attempting to pivot the prop when it would not let me! I had the icon indicating that I had selected it but it was not moving!

The arrow indicates the direction I WAS looking while placing/moving props. The dots indicate props I had already placed and the X is where I could not move the prop. Only by turning to this vantage point was I able to discover why.
Notice the slightly crooked building facade? Well looking through the backside of it, that prop is invisible! But not to the mouse. The whole time I was selecting the wall facade and was moving IT as opposed to the prop I thought I was moving. But since it was invisible I could not tell.

Stuck Mood Menu

I was adjusting puppet moods when I noticed the little mood emote on the main timeline(circled in red).

When I right-clicked it however the mood menu appeared as so on the left, with the top half well above the window! In effect I could not lower it to close it, since the only way to move it is obscured. I tried various ways to make it disappear; open another mood menu off the puppet, going to the set dressing menu, etc. But the menu stayed! I finally got rid of it by loading a new set altogether.

Phone Booth

I have no pictures for this because the game crashed.
I was playing with all the available actions a puppet can have with the red English(?) phone booth. Bang on door, open door, pick up phone and so on.
I noticed the puppet would disappear after certain actions and reappear to start new ones. However when I selected Talk on phone the puppet vanished and the phone ended up back on the recevier. I then selected hang up phone. The game started to load the action....forever. I could NOT get out of it and I had to close out the program.


A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#15 Rysto

Rysto

    Novice director

  • Pioneers
  • 64 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 11:02 PM

Moviestorm Project #4
1:13

http://blip.tv/file/240239

In this one I wanted to show a sample of the minute details you can have your characters do. This one I have myself calling my friend B from a phone booth. All these actions performed by the characters were selected by me. There are still numerous other actions that could have been performed that I did NOT even do!

Your Moviestorm worlds can be as detailed as you like! Nice!

Things I noticed

1---Well video wise the phone went back to the recevier before Rysto hung up the phone. Then it re-appeared in his hand to be hung up. Plus there doesn't seem to be an exiting animation.
2---Audio. This one bothered me the most. When I was recording my conversations I had both characters on the set doing their perspective actions. But the audio played over through both characters camera scenes! I had two different cameras set up but each recorded the other actors lines.
I don't think that should be so, myself. Maybe the dialogue could be tied with the perspective camera?
I'd hate to think I'd have to create an entirely new scene/set just to accomplish a phone call.

This was a small project but fun none the less. I'm loving the fine details you can have your puppets do.

Summary:

1---Video animation glitch
2---Audio carryover


Thanks for watching and reading...comments welcome. smile.gif
A Lionheader.
Click this for Moviestorm Projects
Click this for Rysto's Workshop

#16 DavidB

DavidB

    Master Director

  • Pioneers
  • 793 posts

Posted 07 June 2007 - 05:51 PM

thanks for the wonderful short movies!

Really appreciate the detailed, well documented and illustrated issues you noted. How are we doing at dealing with the issues you found? Are things improving with each build and release for you?
David J W Bailey ACA MA MSc GIBiol MInstD

blog.david.bailey.net www.twitter.com/davidjwbailey www.flickr.com/people/davidjwbailey


  • Please log in to reply


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users