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Ok I'm noticing a pattern


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#1 corthew

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:49 PM

When I'm working a single scene project moviestorm has no real problems. It'll run for an hour or more before the java memory leak issue begins to show itself.

But when I have a second scene or a third scene moviestorm crashes with no warning.

I know this is related to my graphics memory deficiency and I am looking to get a dedicated system soon but...

and its a big but...

Why is it loading scenes into memory that are not active?

I know it needs them there for the cutting room but why for editing a scene?

It has to be hurting business.

I'm an extremely patient man about things I care about and the ideas I'd like to get out of my head and into videos are that.

But what of the less patient people who are many.

The only scene that should be in memory is the scene being worked on.

I just went straight to the second scene upon loading MS and it crashed after only a couple of changes.

If I'm wrong about all scenes being loaded into memory then what is going on when you have multiple scenes that is so different from single scene projects, that it would cause random crashes?

Please reread this before you comment on that last point because I suspect the beginning has been forgotten.
I ramble.smile.gif

Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

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Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#2 luxaeternam

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 03:09 PM

Even with a really fast and powerful machine that horrid java thing can start to leak...

May I suggest one scene - one movie as best practice. If you use an external editor such as Vegas you can quite happily render them separately. I've been working that way for a while, and find it much more reliable. Perhaps others do too.

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#3 corthew

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (luxaeternam @ Jan 2 2011, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even with a really fast and powerful machine that horrid java thing can start to leak...

May I suggest one scene - one movie as best practice. If you use an external editor such as Vegas you can quite happily render them separately. I've been working that way for a while, and find it much more reliable. Perhaps others do too.

smile.gif


I have Adobe Premiere Elements and it is useful for that as well. And I will likely be using it to complete the video I'm currently working on.

But adding a second scene should not so tax the system that it crashes the software without warning unless MS loads all scenes into memory whether or not they are currently being edited.

It would improve the experience of the casual to medium user which would in turn benefit MS financially, if they would correct that.
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#4 daleh

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:57 PM

I dont think its related to how many scenes you have, I have worked on a 6 scene movie with no issues for 4 hours, but have had the memory leak happen on a single scene movie after 10 minutes.

A lot depends on what you are doing, if you are swapping about a lot between different screens, ie, Set Workshop, Character Customiser, Directors and Camera Views, thenths can cause it, especially if you are doing a lot of costume and face morphing in the character screen.

I have found its a good solution to save after doing some set building or character designing, shut MS down and the re-start it before then working on the Directors and Camera views, this way i can using work on these views with a few set alterations as well for hours and hours with not a single issue.


#5 corthew

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:46 AM

QUOTE (daleh @ Jan 2 2011, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dont think its related to how many scenes you have, I have worked on a 6 scene movie with no issues for 4 hours, but have had the memory leak happen on a single scene movie after 10 minutes.
...
especially if you are doing a lot of costume and face morphing in the character screen.


Ok that makes sense. I was in the character creator not long before the shut down on a few of the occasions

QUOTE (daleh @ Jan 2 2011, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have found its a good solution to save after doing some set building or character designing,


I've started making it a habit to save every time I make a change.

The five minute autosave isn't often enough and I'm not sure setting it lower wouldn't cause its own set of issues. smile.gif
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#6 gitsch

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:28 AM

I use a common strentgh consumer level system and had a lot of freezing, leaving and blue screens.
Found a work-a-round, not sure why it works.

I save and exit MS completely, restart and reload at least every 30-40 minutes. That seemed to cure most of my slowdowns, which seemed to lead to the other stuff. And If I'm doing a really complicated piece I hit save every change or two, and still do the shutdown thing.

It's almost as if MS attracts lint and need a periodic shake to keep from clogging.
Even used an egg timer at first, now I just twitch every forty minutes, no matter what I'm doing.

#7 iceaxe

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (luxaeternam @ Jan 2 2011, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
May I suggest one scene - one movie as best practice. If you use an external editor such as Vegas you can quite happily render them separately.


This is exactly how I work. I only ever made one movie that had multiple scenes (Police Patrol), by the end it was crawling.

Keeping each scene to a separate movie and stitching together in your favourite NLE will speed things up considerably, (or at least prevent them slowing down drastically).

#8 borg1of1

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 03:12 AM

Wow - I've been experiencing unexpected hangs and crashes ever since using Moviestorm. I had thought it was my PC - I even built a new one with an i7 QuadCore 920, 6G RAM, and an ATI 5770 card, Windows 7 PRO 64bit, but the problem still happened. I suspected java all along cause every now and then when in Moveistorm I get alerts from Norton that 100% of 1 processor was reached. Java is a hog.

I think the problem occurs after moving from Workshop, Character Customiser, Directors and Camera Views, etc. I thought maybe it was based on complexity of the scene, but i seem to get this even for the most simplest 1 scene movies.

So, I think I will have to do what others have suggested:
1) save frequently (always good advise even if MS was working flawlessly)
2) exit moviestorm completely & frequently (helps to clear up memory leaks);
3) create single scenes as individual movies and put them together in post using a video editing software like Vegas, FinalCut, or Adobe Premiere (I've been doing this anyway, especially to tweek sound and apply filters).





#9 MerryPaw

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 03:37 PM

Goodness this is a bit spooky to read for a new user, I have to learn 'another' software in order to do a movie?
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#10 luxaeternam

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE (MerryPaw @ Jan 19 2011, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Goodness this is a bit spooky to read for a new user, I have to learn 'another' software in order to do a movie?


Don't panic! Windows Moviemaker, or Imovie if you're on a mac, are both really simple for joining scenes. After a while you'll probably want to get something more sophisticated so that you can take advantage of features like multi-track editing. smile.gif
"Les miroirs feraient bien de réfléchir un peu plus avant de renvoyer les images" : Jean Cocteau

#11 julian_gold

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 05:08 PM

Well I've had fun this week. I did some profiling and found that there were some very odd things going on. Why, for example, were there over 160,000 bounding boxes in a particular - fairly simply - scene? Why did the performance problems and crashes only happen when I switched views? And the like...

You will be glad to know that I have answers to both of these and more. A few accidents, going back to last summer, resulted in some innocuous code being checked in. Innocent it looked. But it had the side-effect of adding multiple copies of objects to the scene when it was loaded or changed view. If you stayed in the set workshop though, you'd never see it. And in fact, I found two completely different areas of code where this was happening, leading to a seriously exponential over-allocation, gobbling of RAM, and also CPU cycles. I have removed the first offending item as it was an accident; and I have added extra bullet-proofing to stop the second happening.

Thirdly, those 160,000 boxes came about as a result of some debug code that was used to test our snapping sockets. When you stacked objects, the collision detection system got a bit confused trying to partition things and got stuck in recursive hell. The code was unused anyway, and I have removed it.

Lastly, I have made further modifications - I have speeded up some of the critical loops in the code, and also cut out a bunch of redundant work. The result is that movies load a bit faster, take significantly less memory, and render faster. We think that the performance reduction happened in the summer for release 1.4.1 - we had a few reports of sluggishness. If so, we should be nimbler now than we were then. You should see the results for the next release of the product.

Toodle pip!
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#12 primaveranz

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 09:18 PM

There are damn few software companies in the world who would be this honest with their customers.
Thanks for keeping us informed Julian. wink.gif

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#13 borg1of1

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (julian_gold @ Jan 19 2011, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well I've had fun this week. I did some profiling and found that there were some very odd things going on. Why, for example, were there over 160,000 bounding boxes in a particular - fairly simply - scene? Why did the performance problems and crashes only happen when I switched views? And the like...

You will be glad to know that I have answers to both of these and more. A few accidents, going back to last summer, resulted in some innocuous code being checked in. Innocent it looked. But it had the side-effect of adding multiple copies of objects to the scene when it was loaded or changed view. If you stayed in the set workshop though, you'd never see it. And in fact, I found two completely different areas of code where this was happening, leading to a seriously exponential over-allocation, gobbling of RAM, and also CPU cycles. I have removed the first offending item as it was an accident; and I have added extra bullet-proofing to stop the second happening.

Thirdly, those 160,000 boxes came about as a result of some debug code that was used to test our snapping sockets. When you stacked objects, the collision detection system got a bit confused trying to partition things and got stuck in recursive hell. The code was unused anyway, and I have removed it.

Lastly, I have made further modifications - I have speeded up some of the critical loops in the code, and also cut out a bunch of redundant work. The result is that movies load a bit faster, take significantly less memory, and render faster. We think that the performance reduction happened in the summer for release 1.4.1 - we had a few reports of sluggishness. If so, we should be nimbler now than we were then. You should see the results for the next release of the product.

Toodle pip!


Interesting - I am anxious to see if these fixes address the problems I've been encountering. When will the new release be out?


#14 corthew

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 12:55 AM

QUOTE (julian_gold @ Jan 19 2011, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well I've had fun this week. I did some profiling and found that there were some very odd things going on. Why, for example, were there over 160,000 bounding boxes in a particular - fairly simply - scene? Why did the performance problems and crashes only happen when I switched views? And the like...

You will be glad to know that I have answers to both of these and more. ...

The result is that movies load a bit faster, take significantly less memory, and render faster. We think that the performance reduction happened in the summer for release 1.4.1 - we had a few reports of sluggishness. If so, we should be nimbler now than we were then. You should see the results for the next release of the product.

Toodle pip!



Oh, Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!

I thought it might be me.smile.gif

Did I say thank you?
smile.gif
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#15 mcornetto

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 03:20 AM

Please bring out this fix very soon. Thanks.

#16 kkffoo

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:02 AM

Sounds like worthwhile work Julian, look forward to the results smile.gif

#17 MerryPaw

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:49 PM

*Shivering from Panic* (I am joking and thank for the info about the Window Movie Maker) as to the other bit, its good to clean out the trash, looking forward to the release.
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#18 corthew

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:01 AM

QUOTE (julian_gold @ Jan 19 2011, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well I've had fun this week. I did some profiling and found that there were some very odd things going on. Why, for example, were there over 160,000 bounding boxes in a particular - fairly simply - scene? Why did the performance problems and crashes only happen when I switched views? And the like...

...
Thirdly, those 160,000 boxes came about as a result of some debug code that was used to test our snapping sockets. When you stacked objects, the collision detection system got a bit confused trying to partition things and got stuck in recursive hell. The code was unused anyway, and I have removed it.

...
..we had a few reports of sluggishness. If so, we should be nimbler now than we were then. You should see the results for the next release of the product.

Toodle pip!


I'm bumping this one back up to the top because I'm curious about the update.

Anxiously curious. smile.gif
Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.

#19 Throwaxe

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:16 AM

QUOTE (corthew @ Apr 21 2011, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm bumping this one back up to the top because I'm curious about the update.


Count me in !
(for being curious about the update that will fix the stacking problems...)
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#20 corthew

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE (Throwaxe @ Apr 21 2011, 05:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Filmmaking is inventing impossible problems for yourself and then failing to solve them." - John Boorman



If that makes sense I'm not getting it.
Sounds incredibly profound if he wasn't just messing with a reporter.smile.gif

Sango: "If it was really a miracle everyone would have been saved."

Vargas: "But if everyone was saved how would anyone know it was a miracle."

Sango and Vargas arguing over the implications of one person surviving an unexpectedly active tidal season.


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